[OPE-L:7148] Re: 'Quaderni di Operai Contro' (Vitale) v. Paolo Giussani (fwd)

From: glevy@pop-b.pratt.edu
Date: Fri May 10 2002 - 16:51:32 EDT

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Paolo Giussani" <106642.534@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:30:53 +0200
Subject: Re: [OPE-L:7136] 'Quaderni di Operai Contro'  (Vitale) v. Paolo    Giussani  

----- Original Message -----
From: <glevy@pop-b.pratt.edu>
To: <106642.534@compuserve.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:21 PM
Subject: Fw: [OPE-L:7136] 'Quaderni di Operai Contro' (Vitale) v. Paolo Giussani 

> Paolo:  See enclosed OPE-L post. Riccardo B wrote a post in response.
You'll be able to read it at our archives tomorrow:
> http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/ope/archive
> Regards, Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gerald_a_levy
> To: ope-l@galaxy.csuchico.edu
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:07 AM
> Subject: [OPE-L:7136] "Quaderni di Operai Contro" (Vitale) v. Paolo
> For a good extreme example of how Marxists should
> *NOT*  debate issues in political economy see:
> http://www.asloperaicontro.org/inglese/debate.htm
> where you can download articles from l997-l998 by
> A. Vitale -- debating former listmember Paolo Giussani --
> from the journal "Quaderni di Operai Contro".
> Note the following expressions, from Vitale's articles:
> *  "systematic demolition of his (Paolo's, JL) position";
> * "personal hysteria" ;  "foolishness" ; "his haughtiness,
> arrogance and presumption"; "his hysterical spite" ;
> * "reactionary anti-workers rage";   "belonging to Milan
> reactionary petty bourgeoisie";
> * "collection of absurdities"; "anti-workers pieces of foolery";
> * "based in the vulgar economics"; "the spokesman of the
> social capital";
> * "understood quite nothing of the concept of value discovered
> by Marx, as a consequence he knows little or nothing about the
> way in which exchange takes place";
> * Paolo G is described as "The thinker" ; "The technologist";
> "a petty researcher" ; "a petty professor", "doctor Giussani";
> "a very appreciated item  on anti-worker thinkers' market";
> * "a doctor of Algebraic Marxism"
> and:
> * "A boot-licker, no offense meant".
> (Paolo G, btw, left the list last Fall.)
> Are Vitale's remarks representative of how some groups on the
> Italian Left debate issues associated with political economy?
> Can anyone think of any "better" examples of how to *not*
> debate political economy in recent history?
> What accounts for this level of maliciousness? Couldn't Vitale
> have made all of his basic points _without_ resorting to personal
> abuse and extreme dismissive comments?
> In solidarity, Jerry

Dear Jerry,

I am really surprised in seeing that you are giving some kind of weight to
the stuff produced by people like Vitale. All the more so since you can't
know what happened here some years ago: I simply protested against a public
meeting he and his
sect hold against three persons BY NAME. My protest was against the fact
that a public meeting directed not against ideas but against some person was
allowed by the people managing the institution (a leftist place open to
everybody who needed it for conferences, meetings etc) where the meeting was
hosted. What followed (a mere series of insults) was only the consequence of
my protest.
Now, since you, Bellofiore and Cottrells belong to the keynesian-sraffian
side may feel a bit pleased (especially Riccardo Bellofiore, with whom I
have never had anyhting to do) seeing someone able to insulte people who you
see or believe as belonging to the "other" side (fundamental marxism or TSS
or whatever. Just for your information: I don't belong to any side and never
show up, as everybody knows very well, and have aboslutely nothing to do
with the kind of group created by Freeman, Kliman etc). But, believe me it
is something very far from being honorable from your side.


PS1 Please don't expect a another word on this dirty matter from me, of
course. This the beginning and the end of all it.
I have only to inform you all (but especially Bellofiore) that Vitale's goal
(the 78% of whose writings are on average  made by Marx's quotations: I made
myself the measure) was actually to defend Marx's works "word by word"
against myself and other bad revisionists, and that his first "work" (so to
speak), that you don't know -I suppose, was a booklet on Sraffa made of a
long series of insults to Sraffa, of course. Bellofiore, who has not read my
replies to Vitale but finds "very interesting what he says": this is really
unbelievable: hate and/or social positions can do a lot -I must say), has
chosen a very strange ally whom to teach some piece of style to master the
art to hide insults beneath a respectable form like all western properly
civilized gentleman should be do and which is one the essences of academic
everyday life.

PS2 Jerry, I understand that you may wonder why I no longer am a member of
Ope-L. This has absolutely nothing to do with Freeman or the TSS or anything
like that. Only with the fact that I am not interested to the contents of
Ope-L. The are just not useful for my work.  So long.

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