At 20:01 -0700 15-05-2002, Rakesh Bhandari wrote: >No it wasn't. I meant what I said--your criticism of Kliman was out >of line: it was false, petty and mean spirited. In fact it was a >flame, and I recommend that you be reprimanded by list coordinators. > > ... >This list needs a fresh start, you need to submit your resignation. >We have Fred, Allin and Alfredo to moderate the list. Perhaps a TSS >person can be added. > Dear Jerry and Rakesh, I love you both, and I'm amazed of what's going on. Wev started from one bad way of debating (Vitale), after then we had others (mine it's a PARTIAL position, not the Truth: I refer to Giussani), but yours last mails are incredibly other examples. And I dislike these two phrases of rakesh, which are horrible. I really do NOT understand this obsession. Well, let us acccept that Jerry's representation of Andrew was unfair, in the sense of being wrong. At this point one may intervene saying that indeed Kliman's hermeneutics has diufferent content/aims etc. than Jerry was implying. All that should be requested is a justification of one's claim, and the possibility for others to replicate. That's all. Regarding of the serious debate in Rome, I don't understand your position, Rakesh. The book which will be presented is very important (though there, btw, my positions are presented in a ridicoulous manner). I am reallly sorry I can't go (I received the information too late to change my University committments). But then you seem to imply that nobody can present criticisms of the format of the day. And if I do that, of course, somebody will say that I have "acrimony". I don't understand one cannot put forward a different perspective about that. Mine, in short, is the following. The day should present the book, well, I personally intend presentations in a different manner: the book is there, readers come and present their impressions to the authors and public, who answers. Here we have the WHOLE morning to a presentation to the public of the theses of the book (whicch are already there, in print), and MID-AFTERNOON of debate, opened and closed by Vasapollo-Kliman and Freeman. In this mid-afternoon there is section for the politicians. Well, I'm Italian, I know them, most personally. May I suggest that 4 in 5 knows very, very little about the transformation problem or whatever you call it (and the fifth, Alfonso Gianni, I doubt could reasonably intervene on the four questions, which are really TECHNICAL, though he made the error in a book with Bertinotti, the Italian communist leader, to heavily quote, and positively, my writings on this stuff: this doen not mean that he is responsible for what I say, and viceversa). So we have mid-mid afternoon for people like Screpanti, Foley etc, who may of course, answer the four questions posed by the Laboratory. Again, I find very unusual (though, of course, legitimate) that a debate in a presnetation of a book is pre-orientated with a set of questions. Me, for one, would answer no to the first two questions. The relevant point for me is that THOSE four questions do not catch the real problematic side of Marx (why value represents ONLY labour; why value as a representation of labour is by Marx linked to the money-COMMODITY). Starting from these DIFFERENT questions, answering them so that the labour theory of value is still maintained, one has to rethink the way the 'transformation' is done (going towards a Foley-Duménil solution plus a class real wage as given). Well, how could I say that if obliged to spend my ten-fifteen minutes answering what are for me minor questions? Only from my qyestions, I could give a reaction to that book ... So, of course, that in Rome will be a serious debate. I don't see why one cannot put forward a serious disagreement. Again: please, stop the mails in which people over-react. rb -- Riccardo Bellofiore Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche Via dei Caniana 2 I-24127 Bergamo, Italy e-mail: bellofio@unibg.it, bellofio@cisi.unito.it direct +39-035-277545 secretary +39-035 277501 fax: +39 035 277549 homepage: http://www.unibg.it/dse/homebellofiore.htm
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