From: Andrew Brown (A.Brown@LUBS.LEEDS.AC.UK)
Date: Tue Feb 14 2006 - 12:12:37 EST
Hi Ian, There are rather a lot of things going on at once - I am beginning to lose track! Perhaps I should start with my take on the TP (since I promised to) then I will try to paraphrase your position to see if I understand it and to give me something to aim at. My own view is influenced by the Fine/Saad-Filho take on the TP but I stress that they may strongly disagree with most, if not all, of the propositions below: (1) I do not attack the Sraffian calculation (really it is a definition, not a calculation) of prices of production. (2) I think the Sraffian 'value system' is bogus because it assumes homogenous labour. However I do not think this affects the key Sraffian conclusion that the two aggregate equalities cannot hold together. It does affect how we interpret Marx and how we comprehend capitalism. Marx's development of the concepts of TCC, OCC, and VCC arises in part because Marx cannot assume homogenous labour in the manner of the Sraffian value system. These concepts are vital to understanding capitalism because they are central to the grasp of technical change. For now let me just say that the OCC is supposed to reflect only the TCC, if you like it is an 'index' of the TCC (though 'index' is not quite the right concept). However, I do not think I need outline this any further at this stage because it may not be crucial to our concerns in this discussion. (3) Given (1) and (2) then an important question arises concerning both the interpretation of Marx and the comprehension of capitalism: why does Marx find, at the level of abstraction of Vol. 3, Ch.9, that the two aggregate equalities hold? Given (1) and (2) the only answer must be that the assumptions of the Sraffian calculation are not the same as those of Vol. 3, Ch. 9. Indeed, that is my answer. In fact, as is clear from the text, one obvious point is that Marx does not transform inputs. This is obviously the key reason that Marx gets the aggregate equalities holding precisely. Traditionally this has been deemed a logical error on Marx's part. I don't think it is but I will not pursue this because it may not be vital to our discussion (it involves discussion of TCC, OCC and VCC). (4)I think the Sraffian calculation is correct at a lower level of abstraction than that of Vol. 3, Ch. 9. Therefore this calculation is still of interest to me as it is to you. If the calculation really did 'disprove' the LTV than I would abandon the LTV. (5) I also agree that there is a (still very abstract) level where Marx transforms the inputs and where he claims that the aggregate equalities still hold 'as a never attained average'. However, Marx never pursues this line of argument very far. His concerns lie elsewhere. Incidentally, so far as I know, neither Fine and Alfredo S-F have pursued this level very far either. (6) How then can the aggregate equalities hold, even given that the inputs are transformed? Once again, the answer must lie in introducing assumptions not present in the Sraffian calculation. I would speculatively look at as follows. We know that total value = total prices = c+v+s (by assumption regarding the value of money). Furthermore we know that *if* the average composition of capital of all means of production is equal to the social average *then* total value of c = total price of c. Likewise for those goods that are in the 'wage bundle' [traditionally the subsistence bundle plus moral and historical element, but I would think in terms of consumption norms etc... alas this is a difficult issue], i.e. *if* the goods that make up the 'consumption basket' have the same average OCC as the social average OCC *then* then total value of v = total price of v. It would follow automatically that total value of s = total price of s. Therefore I speculate that Marx makes these requisite assumptions when he claims that the aggregate equalities hold together after the transformation of the inputs. Marx's reference to a 'never attained average' could suggest that he proposes that the distribution of OCCs of individual commodities is independent of the categorisation of commodities as wage goods (underlying v), means of production (underlying c) and so-called 'luxuries' (to the extent that they underlie s). This assumption is not dissimilar to Paul's 'random variable' argument, though I am making explicit that it is the OCC which is a random variable, therefore making price-value deviation a random variable. Under this assumption then it would indeed be the case that the two aggregate equalities will hold 'as a never attained average' [in the static case they are actually attained but realty is not static so they are not actually attained]. The Sraffian argument, in these terms, would simply be that there is no reason for the assumption to hold. (7) But the key to comprehending capitalism does not rest on point (6), which is why Marx never pursues it. It rests, instead, on the dynamics which must be analysed after point (3). It seems to me that by vol. 3, ch. 9, it is clear that OCCs are not going to have such a strong correlation with the different categories of goods (underlying c, v and s) so as to distort the price expression of SNLT catastrophically. The price-value deviation will be small *relative* to the deviation caused by the cyclical fluctuations (bubbles) that keep dragging capital away from productive activities entirely. It is significant here that profits require a physical surplus and so surplus value (measured in SNLT) and profit are going to be 'close' together through time *relative* to fluctuations that try to drag capital away from surplus production altogether. OK. That's me. How does your argument look from my point of view? You are arguing that, even considering dynamics, the neo-R calculation shows prices and SNLT have no necessary relation. Well, it seems to me that this calculation shows the opposite. It shows that the two aggregate qualities will not usually precisely hold together but Marx's LTV does not propose that they should, at the level of abstraction at which the Sraffian calculation is pitched. With the Sraffian calculation, then prices deviate from values only in so far as OCCs are correlated with the three main categories of goods (i.e. with means of production, of consumption, and so-called 'luxuries' - point 6 above). And the Sraffian calculation shows that surplus product is required for profit, which in general means that surplus labour is required for profit. This will mean that deviations of SNLT from price are going to be small relative to the amplitude of dynamic fluctuations of price away from SNLT, where capital continually tends to be sucked away from surplus producing sectors entirely, only to be dragged back towards them in crises (point 7 above). (The key to the dynamic context is that capital is allowed to pursue new lines of investment, unlike in the static context.) The obvious neo-R critique of the LTV is then that SNLT is *redundant* or that the two aggregate equalities do not *precisely* hold (the LTV is *inconsistent*). But you are not offering that critique at all. You are offering a 'no necessary relation' critique which I don't think holds water in a dynamic context (I do not think it implicit in the redundancy or inconsistency critique). Many thanks, Andy
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Feb 19 2006 - 00:00:02 EST