Re: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

In order to do what?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Cockshott" <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk>
To: "Outline on Political Economy mailing list" <ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:01 PM
Subject: RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

> Are you really serious about believing that old oil pipeline story as a
> motive?
> One could scarcely imagine a lest propitious environment for building an
> oil pipeline than invading Aghanistan and fighting a long guerilla war!
> If that was their motive they would have cosied up to and bribed the
> former Taliban government not started a war.
>
> You forget the obvious stated motivation -- attacking Islamist millitancy.
> ________________________________________
> From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu [ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu] On
> Behalf Of Paul Bullock [paulbullock@ebms-ltd.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:54 PM
> To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list
> Subject: Re: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment
>
> If Paul C thinks that the imperialist action from Palestine to Afghanistan
> ( to limit the point ) have no basis in economic motives, then I wonder
> what sort of Marxist he may consider himself to be?
>
> By the way the sort of evidence for economic motivation in this link is
> well known
>
> http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html
>
>
>
> Paul B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: D. Göçmen<mailto:dogangoecmen@aol.com>
> To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment
>
> Paul:
>
> The suggestion that the US intervention in Afghanistan is for economic
> motives
>
> of capital export is total joke.
>
> Dogan:
> so, then, the whole US administration must be joking and all imperialist
> countries involved and competing against one another in the region must
> playing a children's game. Remember, just before the change of Bush
> administration we stood very close to a war in the region and comentators
> said it was a conflict that brought us very close to war between great
> powers.
>
>
> D.Göçmen
> http://dogangocmen.wordpress.com/
> http://www.dogangocmen.blogspot.com/
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
> Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk>
> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
> Verschickt: Mi., 30. Dez. 2009, 0:36
> Thema: RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment
>
>
> The social relation was exported no question about that, but my point was
> to
>
> critique the idea that the export of capital was a way of absorbing excess
>
> surplus value. It would be more realistic to see late 19th century
> imperialism
>
> as relating to the export of labour. Recall the demographic profile of
> Germany
>
> and the UK as population surplus areas. Canada, Australia and South Africa
> were
>
> sites for exporting surplus population. William, left with the deserts of
> the
>
> Kalahari, the swamps of the Ovango coveted areas more suitable for white
>
> settlement -- hence the ambitions for colonisation in South America, from
> which
>
> followed the need to challenge the Monroe doctrine, and fromwhich followed
> the
>
> contingency plans to invade the USA to enforce claims to Venezuela.
>
>
>
> It is worth reading the tin. IN 1900 the leading states were all quite
> open
>
> about being empires with territorial claims. The situation today is
> totally
>
> different.
>
>
>
> The suggestion that the US intervention in Afghanistan is for economic
> motives
>
> of capital export is total joke. The only capitalist power exporting
> capital on
>
> any scale to Afghanistan is China not the USA. Who is developing the
> mineral
>
> reserves, copper mines there -- China, not the USA.
>
> USA only invaded Afghanistan after 9/11 as a cack handed attempt to strike
> back
>
> at those who attacked it.
>
>
>
> Iraq is a rather different matter, here supplies of credit from the Saudis
> was
>
> probably the motivating factor, but that does not fit in to the old
> analysis of
>
> imperialism either.
>
>
>
> I feel DY is attempting to apply to the 21st century an analysis that was
> at
>
> best a partial fit to the early 20th.
>
> ________________________________________
>
> From:
> ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu>
> [ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu>] On
> Behalf
>
> Of GERALD LEVY [gerald_a_levy@msn.com<mailto:gerald_a_levy@msn.com>]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:45 PM
>
> To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list
>
> Subject: RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment
>
>
>
>> How real then is the idea of capital export as underlying even late
>
>> 19th century imperialism.
>
>
>
> Hi Paul C:
>
>
>
> If you think of the export of capital as an export and expansion of a
> social
>
> relation (most especially, the class relation between capitalists and
>
> wage-workers) then it's quite real (but not without its contradictory
> aspects).
>
>
>
> In solidarity, Jerry
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Received on Thu Dec 31 13:32:07 2009