Re Gil's [5262]: > I agree that surplus labor must be expended. > That's what Marx means by > "valorization". But he never insists that the > extraction of surplus labor > has to be based on the "employment of wage- > labor by capital" *as a matter > of definition*. *You* added that. I'd be > interesting in knowing where you > get the impression that he says otherwise. I didn't write that the extraction of *surplus labor* has to be based on the employment of wage-labor by capital. I indicated that the production of *surplus VALUE* is based on the exploitation of wage-labor by capital. This follows necessarily from Marx's definitions of productive and unproductive labour since, by my reading, a requirement for labour to be productive of surplus-value is that it takes the form of wage-labor employed by capital. This also is a consequence of the double meaning of "free labour." I also note that while you picked-up on my inclusion of surplus labor time you didn't also note the presence of unpaid labor time. Unpaid labor time requires the presence of paid labor time and the category of *labor power as a commodity* for its comprehension. *Of course*, there is the extraction of surplus labor time ... in ALL class societies. Thus, the extraction of surplus labor was a necessary part of feudal and slave societies. This doesn't mean, though, that the surplus product takes the (specific social) FORM of surplus VALUE in non-capitalist modes of production. > Then what do you make of statements like this > one by Marx (of which there > are multiple examples): > "In India, for example, the capital of the usurer > advances raw materials or > tools or even both the immediate producer in the > form of money. The > exorbitant interest which it attracts, the interest > which, irrespective of > its magnitude, it extorts from the primary > producer, is just another name > for surplus-value." [Resultate, P. 1023 in Penguin edition of Capital, > Volume I] I would highlight the word "attracts" in the quote above. In solidarity, Jerry
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