I much agree with Jerry [7064]. Value is a social relation, not a thing, definitely not "stuff". The conceptual problem that I mentioned just a moment ago in my reply to Ian [7065] has to do exactly with the problem of specifying what value is (in process, forms of value), what surplus value is, and what these are not. Imo, I don't see how the different (and difficult) question of how to theorise the real world interface between value relations (capital-wage labour relations) and non-value relations (slave labour) can be fruitfully approached if participants to a discussion have no agreement on these conceptual basics. Nicky --------- At 07:11 25/04/02 -0400, you wrote: > [7062]: Dear Ian: In [6099] you claimed that viewing value and >[the redistribution of] surplus value as "stuff" is and surplus >value are represented (broadly interpreted to "stuff" are not >themselves value and surplus is because value and fundamentally, >*specific social relations*. a nutshell, is why I disagree with your >"most abstract categories express *specific* social >trans-historically such they can apply wherever and whenever there are >products which are produced in order to have exchange value This >strikes me as suggesting that "stuff" which comes to have a use-value and >an exchange-value must have a "substance" called -- regardless of the >presence or absence ruling class and the Yet, you rightly claimed >that a "stuff" conception clearly a conception that fact that >'commodities' are produced without specifying the social relations >characteristic of that commodity production pure "stuff" theory of >value. It is the *specific social relations* that distinguish one form > The specific and necessary condition for the surplus product to come to >relation between the In solidarity, Jerry PS: the above represents a >reply to Rakesh's [7063] as well. ----------------------- Nicola Taylor Faculty of Economics Murdoch University South Street Murdoch W.A. 6150 Australia Tel. 61 8 9385 1130 email: n.taylor@stu.murdoch.edu.au
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