From: Fred B. Moseley (fmoseley@mtholyoke.edu)
Date: Sat Oct 05 2002 - 17:26:32 EDT
Riccardo, thanks for your comments. My replies below. On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Riccardo Bellofiore wrote: > At 22:36 -0400 4-10-2002, Fred B. Moseley wrote: > > > >I always thought that this quote meant something like "put up or shut > >up". But I reread the translator's (Fowkes) footnote tonight, and he > >says that this quote is a reference to Hegel, and specifically to the > >Preface to Hegel's Philosophy of Right. According to Fowkes, Hegel > >"uses the quote to illustrate his view that the task of philosophy is to > >apprehend and comprehend WHAT IS, rather that what ought to be." > >(emphasis added) > > > of course, "a hypothetical total > surplus-value proportional to the labor-time embodied in surplus > goods" has nothing to do with "what ought to be". this > characterization would apply to a Ricardian socialist, not to a > Marxian (or to most of Marxians). > > in the specific instance, the idea you criticize is (or may be seen) > as essential to understand what is. this is true: both if we accept > or if we deny that this notion is actually the Marxian one, relevant > to read Capital vol I. 1. I am glad that you agree that the aim of Marx's theory of surplus-value is to explain the actual total surplus-value ("what is"). 2. However, you seem to suggest that is possible to have a "two-stage" theory of the actual total surplus-value (the term is mine, not Riccardo's but I think it accurately reflects the theory that Riccardo is suggesting; please correct me if I am wrong): Stage 1: determination of a hypothetical total surplus-value (dM*) Stage 2: the transformation of this hypothetical total surplus-value into the actual total surplus-value (dM). You suggest that this "two-stage" theory is possible, whether or not it is Marx's theory in Capital. 3. In the current discussion, I am interested only in what is Marx's theory in Capital. 4. And I see no textual evidence at all, in any of Marx's manuscripts, that he himself followed such a "two-stage" method. Quite to the contrary, there are many, many passages, throughout the various drafts of Capital (as I have documented in several papers) which suggest that Marx himself understood his own logical method of the determination of the actual total surplus-value to be a "one-stage" method. The actual total surplus-value is determined in one step, in Volume 1. The second step in Marx's theory is NOT to transform a hypothetical surplus-value into the actual total surplus-value. Rather, Marx's second step presupposes a GIVEN, predetermined total surplus-value (Marx said many times) and explains the division of this given total surplus-value into individual parts. The second step is DIVISION of the total surplus-value, not ALTERATION of the total surplus-value. There is NO TRANSFORMATION of a hypothetical total surplus-value (dM*) to the actual total surplus-value (dM) in Capital. 5. Therefore, I think we have to conclude, don't we, that Marx himself understood his theory to determine the actual total surplus-value in one step, i.e. in Volume 1? Whether or not a "two-stage" theory of the actual total surplus-value is possible, and why one would want to explain the actual total surplus-value in two stages rather than one, are separate questions. But I think it is clear that Marx's own theory of the actual total surplus-value is a "one-stage" theory. > > so, Fred, I think you are creating a straw man (or woman). > > riccardo I don't thing I am creating a straw man. Rather, I think I am trying to clarify the logical method that Marx himself used to construct his economic theory. And, as I said, I think it is quite clear that Marx's own theory of the actual total surplus-value is a "one-stage" theory. Comradely, Fred
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