From: clyder@gn.apc.org
Date: Fri Oct 25 2002 - 16:09:36 EDT
> > 1. The concept of surplus value is established at the level of the basic > > relations of production and rests on the difference between necessary and > > surplus labour time. Marx's analysis in vol 1 is concerned with > establishing > > that surplus value is regulated by the relationship between necessary and > > surplus labour time, and to establishing that surplus value can thus only > be > > increased by either extending the working day - absolute surplus value, or > > reducing necessary labour - relative surplus value. > > Yes, but the labour-time that creates surplus-value is SNLT. What > labor constitutes SNLT can only be known when (if) the commodity > product (C) is sold for money (M'). This strikes me as arrant subjectivism. Known to whom? Why is knowing it important? You express the viewpoint of the individual bourgeois, who needs to know if his particular investment will pay. Considered objectively, there will be underlying causes which will determine how much of each commodity will get sold. The quantity sold is determined by various objective conditions - for instance the quantity of steel sold is determined by the current production levels in the steel using industries. It is this requirement that determines how much labour - given current technical conditions - is socially necessary in steel production. These objective conditions determine the sales. The quantity sold reveals to the individual bourgeois whether the labour he employed was socially neccessary. But if steel production exceeds current steel consumption then some of the labour expended on steel production is unecessary. It is not the lack of sales that makes labour unecessary but labour's lack of necessity that explains the dearth of sales. > Thus my point to Fred about the role of > "givens" in Marx's theory -- if something is taken to be given now at one > stage in the reconstruction in thought of the object (capitalism) then one > must be able to specify *what* later stage in the analysis it will _no > longer be_ given (but is instead shown to be either a result or modified) > and then one has to develop that comprehension. That is true enough, and it is then later analysis of the reproduction schemes that dispells the subjectivist interpretation of SNLT that you were advancing earlier. > > > 2. The identification of surplus value with profit is also wrong because > > profit is only part of surplus value. Interest, rent and unproductive > > expenditure constitute major other portions of surplus value. Profit is > > thus a form of revenue, > > Good points. > > > or more properly an accounting category operating > > at the level of individual property relations and subdivisions of > property. > > Its magnitude can thus vary as a result of the proportionate division of > > revenues within the propertied classes, quite independently of the > > magnitude of surplus value. > > And non-propertied classes since a substantial proportion of the wages > paid to the working class take the form of deductions from surplus value > when (a portion of) those revenues are expended on salaries for workers > \who are unproductive (of surplus value) workers. > > The way I understand the question, after the sale of C for M' then the > revenues can be divided into productive consumption and unproductive > consumption of that surplus-value. This division forms a formal limit to > the accumulation of capital since only that portion of s which is > productively consumed can expand the accumulation of capital. Yes I agree with this. > A former undergraduate mentor, Jim Becker, discussed this subject at > length in his book _Marxian Political Economy_. While I don't necessarily > agree with all that he wrote on this topic, I think it has been a largely > undeveloped subject. > > > 3. As an accounting category, > > Do other listmembers classify profit as _only_ a "accounting category"? > > > profit is not determined by the magnitude of > > surplus labour time, instead it is driven by Kalecki's equation > > P = I + cc > > where P is profit, I is investment and cc is capitalist consumption. This > > equation is of course just another way of writing the reproduction > formulae > > of vol 2. > > And it is conceptually the same as what I described in the paragraph > above that began "The way I understand the question ....". > > > Profit therefore is driven by the expenditure of the capitalist class, and > > again for this reason can vary quite independently of the magnitude of > > surplus value. > > No argument. > > > The key factor that varies in Kalecki's equations is of course > > employment. > > That hasn't been established above. Perhaps we should go on to > consider that question? > > > The level of abstraction used is one in which the divisions of surplus > value > > are ignored and one just looks at the social labour budget and works out > > how many social working hours per day are required to reproduce the > > working population at its current level of consumption. > > One is not at this stage concerned with the monetary equations operating > > at the level of the national accounts which determine the accounting > profit > > of the corporate sector, the flow of funds between it and the banking > sector > > etc. > > At the level of analysis national accounts don't all contradictions come > into play? Or is that only the world market? At the level of the national accounts, according to Kalecki the trade surplus acts as another determinant of profits. > > In solidarity, Jerry > > > > > >
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