From: Andrew Brown (Andrew@lubs.leeds.ac.uk)
Date: Thu Nov 07 2002 - 10:19:29 EST
Hi Jerry,
Re [7953]:
Thanks for the reply -- I feel that we are close to seeing each
other's point of view. Let me try to clear up some remaining
questions.
> I don't think that there can be any meaningful and unproblematic way
> in which we can 'assess' (calculate?) use-value.
I agree with you. This is why I have ceased to call the OCC and
'index' of the TCC. Rather, we are interested in the value 'of' the
TCC i.e. the ratio of values, rather than the ratio of use values. The
OCC and the VCC are two different valuations of the TCC.
> I don't think that use-values can be accurately "assessed", i.e.
> assigned a meaningful magnitude. [and we should avoid a contrivance
> like the marginalist pseudo-measure "utils".]
By 'assessment' I do not quite mean 'measurement'. Rather I mean
the valuation of the TCC. The value 'attached' to the TCC, if you
like. One can value the TCC in different ways and these different
ways have different implications. If one uses 'current prices' (my
definition of the VCC) then there are two distinct reasons why the
ratio might change: (1) a change in the TCC; (2) a change in the
current unit price of one or more of the elements of the TCC. If one
uses constant prices (my definition of the OCC) then this
eliminates (abstracts from) (2), above. i.e. the only thing that can
cause the OCC to change is a change in the TCC. In this sense
the OCC is the 'value-reflex' of the TCC. Thus I am coming to the
view that the phrase 'value-reflex' of the TCC is the best description
of the OCC. This latter phrase gets to the heart of the subtlities of
what is going on here. It is the phrase used by Alfredo.
Above I have considered the dynamic case (the case Simon
considers also) since this is easiest to grasp. But the static case
follows the same logic: the OCC only changes if the TCC changes,
not if unit prices change. The OCC is the 'value-reflex' of the TCC.
>
> > Now, in the dynamic case
> > (addressed by Simon, and the easiest one to understand) then one can
> > see the OCC as a constant price measure and the VCC as a current
> > price measure. In the static case of the transformation problem one
> > simply holds the OCC constant (because the TCC is unchanged) as we
> > go through a logical rather than temporal sequence, first looking at
> > the 'value' rate of profit (i.e. before profit rate equalisation)
> > and second at the 'price' rate of profit (the equalised rate).
> > Again, I simply can't stress too highly how important this is
> > because it blows away the myth that Marx's procedure is flawed
> > because he 'failed' to transform the inputs.
>
> Since the above appears to be a summary of a presentation that
> I am not familiar with (from Alfredo's book? ... your dissertation?)
> I'll not comment at this time.
Ben Fine first suggested this approach but he does it in a short
note which is difficult to follow (ref given in my previous email).
Alfredo's is the key presentation. He has made a clear and
comprehensive exposition of Marx's transformation procedure
('Capital' Vol 3, ch.9) in his 1997 C&C (no.63: pp.115--36), paper. A
further refinement and development of this interpretation is to be
found in his book.
>
> > Above I have suggested that there are overwhelming theoretical
> > 'advantages' with the distinction. In short, it clears up the
> > controversy over both the TP and the LTRPF. How much more
> > useful can you get!?:)
>
> For the same reason I indicated above, I will not comment on this
> assertion.
On the LTRPF see refs given in previous email.
> Yes, it's different. But, I'm not convinced that the underlying issue
> is satisfactorily answered. You still attempt to assign some way of
> measuring/assessing the TCC. How *exactly* is this done?
>
I hope that the above has made clear what I mean. It is not a
question of 'measuring' the TCC (as my original term 'index'
unhelpfully suggested). Rather it is a question of valuing the TCC in
such a way that the valuation only changes if the TCC changes
(thus abstracting from changes in unit prices). The exact way to do
this in the dynamic case is to use constant prices. In the static
case of Vol 3 ch.9 one simply leaves the OCC unchanged as one
moves from values to prices (i.e. the inputs do not get
transformed).
> The VCC doesn't *by itself*, i.e. in isolation from the TCC,
> encompass that distinction. It is the OCC rather that 'mirrors' both
> the VCC and TCC. That is, it is only the OCC -- rather than the TCC or
> VCC -- which encompasses both the use-value and value sides.
I think I grasp this aspect of your view. My question is, then, why
not simply call the 'OCC' the 'CC'? The term 'CC' would then refer to
the unity. The terms 'TCC' and 'VCC' would refer to the two poles of
the unity.
Thanks again,
Andy
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