From: Michael Eldred (artefact@T-ONLINE.DE)
Date: Sat May 24 2003 - 10:15:20 EDT
Cologne 24-May-2003 clyder@GN.APC.ORG schrieb Fri, 23 May 2003 21:39:30 +0100: > Quoting Michael Eldred <artefact@T-ONLINE.DE>: > > > Cologne 23-May-2003 > > > > Paul Cockshott schrieb Wed, 21 May 2003 10:54:37 +0100: > > > > > Andrew Brown wrote: > > > > > >> Regarding your summary of my position on value: this is a > > >> reasonable summary -- and thanks for that -- though it does of > > >> course beg crucial questions such as the nature of 'logic' and its > > >> relation to matter, so I probably wouldn't have put it quite the > > >> same > > >> way. > > > > > > On issues of the philosophical status of maths and logic, > > > I regard Deutsch as one of the most fruitful researchers > > > working on a materialist theory in this respect. > > > > > > I enclose a his key 1985 paper and a recent summary. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Cockshott > > > Dept Computing Science > > > University of Glasgow > > > > > > > > > > > > 0141 330 3125 > > > > > > > > > > > deutsch85.pdf > > > > > > Name: deutsch85.pdf > > > Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > > > Encoding: base64 > > > > > > deutsch.pdf > > > > > > Name: deutsch.pdf > > > Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > > > Encoding: base64 > > > > The two papers represent what I would call a digital casting of being. > > The distinction between "software" and "hardware" maps (somewhat > > imperfectly) onto the Cartesian dualism between res cogitans and res > > extensa. > > > > I dont see that in saying this you grapple with any of Deutsch's points. > You make a general statement about the relationship between a couple > of Cartesian concepts and a couple of terms used in computing, but > what relevance has that to Deutsch's basic question : > 'what is it about the laws of physics that allows mathematics to > be possible?' Of course my comment do not directly "grapple" with Deutsch, but refer to what I call a digital casting of being (cf. the artefact web site). This concerns "the philosophical status of maths and logic", to which you refer in your previous post. Noteworthy to my mind is Deutsch's statement: "We see around us a computable universe; that is to say, of all possible mathematical objects and relationships, only an in?nitesimal proportion are ever instantiated in the relationships of physical objects and physical processes. (These are essentially the computable functions.)" This gives rise to the question: What is the scope of "physical objects and physical processes"? These physical entities are all "computable functions" (which could be programmed to run on a quantum computer). > The attempt to formulate descriptions of material reality in > discrete ( and thus in your terms a digital casting ) is taken > further by Stephen Wolfram, in 'A New Kind of Science', where he > explores that generalisation of cellular automata. But a significant > point about the latter is that they dont involve software. I agree. It is by no means necessary to talk of software. What is essential is that beings are represented by digital code -- that is then the way beings show up in the world and _are_ defined. This only becomes visible in stepping back from metaphysics (as opposed to imagining one is beyond metaphysics). Thanks for the reference to Wolfram. Michael _-_-_-_-_-_-_- artefact text and translation _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- made by art _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ http://www.webcom.com/artefact/ _-_-_-_-artefact@webcom.com _-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Dr Michael Eldred -_-_- _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
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