From: Paul Bullock (paulbullock@EBMS-LTD.CO.UK)
Date: Tue Feb 15 2005 - 17:27:45 EST
Hans, just to let you know I ( as usual) agree with you. I think it is quite clear from Engels afterword to Vol 3, what Marx shows is how the law of value works itself out as capitalism develops, in a way which is not obvious to the partcipants or observers ( rather as Ricardo's trade theory was not intuitively obvious as Smith's was, if this isn't a misleading analogy at scientific progress). PS I downloaded all your pdf files but whether I'll get round to reading them I don't know!!! Paul Bullock. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans G. Ehrbar" <ehrbar@LISTS.ECON.UTAH.EDU> To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:20 PM Subject: [OPE-L] Marx's Form of Analysis > Jerry, you are right, I should not have called them "private > producers" but "private individuals who make the decisions > about production." But I disagree with you (and I think > others on this list) if you say value as a category can only > be grasped if there is wage labor. Say in a situation where > all commodities that can be purchased in a society are > produced by private producers who own their means of > production, then > > (a) you will probably have a rough correspondence between > exchange values and labor time (although this probably > depends very much on it how easy it is for the producers to > change between different lines of production, and I would > also expect that there is a strong conventional element to > both prices and production methods), > > (b) but with much higher certainty I would assume that there > is money > > and (c) I would also expect that some people hoard money. > > All these are effects of the social relation "value". > > > Hans. > > > > 2. Hans: > > >> The private producers have human labour-power at their > >> disposal and they have to decide what products to produce > >> and what technology to use. > > > At the risk of stating the obvious -- > > > Within any class society, the producers do not in general > > decide what to produce or what technology to use. These > > decisions are made by those with the power to make them: > > by capitalists under capitalism, slave-owners under slavery, > > feudal lords under feudalism, etc. The producers only make > > these decisions in exceptional circumstances under capitalism: > > e.g. in worker-owned producer cooperatives. Even then, > > they have limited power because (unless they own a natural > > monopoly) the force of competition will tend to impose choices > > on them. > > >> The market gives them the information necessary to do this > >> only if the market participants equate all their commodities > >> to one standard, i.e. money > > > What the producers lack under capitalism is not "the > > information necessary"; what they lack is ownership and > > control of the means of production. Value can not be > > adequately grasped as a specific social relation without > > reference to the later stages of Marx's analysis, including > > Ch. 6 of Volume 1. > > > In solidarity, Jerry > >
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