From: Dogan Goecmen (Dogangoecmen@AOL.COM)
Date: Sat Oct 21 2006 - 13:48:58 EDT
Hi Rakesh, I thank you very much for the references. I am very excited about Zelling Harris' book. Owen is one of the first scholars to recognise utopian (socialist) aspects in Adam Smith's work. Saint-Simon praised Smith's work because Smith, Saint-Simon said, enabled me to understand society and the state. But as we gave up our utopias we left Smith to neoliberals. Warm regards, Dogan. In einer eMail vom 21.10.2006 18:21:52 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt bhandari@BERKELEY.EDU: Falling further behind. Welcome Dogan. Not sure whether anyone has commented on Marx's discussion of the cooperative movement in what I believe to be his first speech as General Secretary of the International. If I remember correctly, he both praises the movement and criticizes interest in it in his own time. An important work in Owen's tradition would be the posthumous work of the mathematical linguist Zellig Harris The Transformation of Capitalist Society. Yours, Rakesh > Hi Jerry, > > I agree with you. Since Marx's Capital (4 volumes) is about the > contradictory nature of capital one has to read the whole work to have a > complete picture > of the issue. But I think the very nature of 'give me that and I will > give > this' is essentailly analysed in the first chapter. I have discussed the > nature of the market and its relation to a more or less developed > socialism. I > agree with you that some elements of the market can be tolarated in a > transitory > period from capitalism to socialism. But in the long term market as such > must be overcome because it is the negation of socialism. > > Fraternite, > Dogan. > > > In einer eMail vom 21.10.2006 13:11:35 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt > Gerald_A_Levy@MSN.COM: > > Hi Dogan: > > If the issue is whether markets are part of the emancipatory > mission of Utopian societies, I think one has to go _at least_ > a few chapters _beyond_ Chapter 1 of Volume I of _Capital_. > In the formula M - C - M' one can, for instance, see problems > for such utopias: i.e. the outcome of 'market utopias' are > different for different segments and hence there tends to be > increasing differences in income and wealth distribution. Yet, > surely, solidarity and equality are two of the hallmarks of Utopias, > so the market produces outcomes which come into conflict > with these socialist principles. This does not mean that markets > can not be tolerated in socialist societies but that the dangers > (of which there are many, including what mainstream economists > call "market failures") have to be recognized and there have to > be workable policies to ensure that emancipatory principles are > preserved and reinforced. > > In solidarity, Jerry > > By 'market in itself' I mean that we can develop an objective > understanding > of market independently from what all sorts of ideologies say about and > ascribe to it. I mean the question we have to pose is this: what is the > nature of > market. Based on this objective grasp we can then judge about these > ideologies whether they are right or wrong. Market is an institution where > humans get > in touch with one another for a certain purpose: the exchange of > commodities. That is to say that human relations on market are mediated by > commodities - > either directly or indirectly by means of money. So, the question what is > the nature of market changes into the question what is the nature of > commodity > and money.The analysis of commodity and money must then be analysed in > terms > of human relation because commodities are being exchanged by human > beings. > These questions are profoundly posed and analysed, I think, in the first > Chapter of the Capital of Marx. This is my reply to your two questions in > short. > > > > > >
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