From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Sat Mar 03 2007 - 16:06:45 EST
Much of this comes down to terminology. You use the word value to designate what I would term exchange value. I agree with you that species other than us have to observe an economy of time, but that would not be enough to make value an appropriate category. I would define value as abstract socially necessary labour time, and as such it will only be appropriate when investigating species that have a co-operative mode of life. There is certainly no point in struggling against 'value'. There is however a reason to struggle against exploitation, and that, I would argue requires a replacement of exchange value with a) allocation to the producers on an equivalent basis for work done b) restriction on the operation of exchange value and money in order to prevent the re-emergence of capitalist exploitation. Paul Cockshott www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc -----Original Message----- From: OPE-L on behalf of Jerry Levy Sent: Sat 3/3/2007 7:03 PM To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Subject: Re: [OPE-L] salto mortale Paul C wrote: > In socialist society gold will remain more valuable than copper or lead. > Society may be able to afford to roof halls with copper, but not gold. Paul and Allin: Look before you leap. I asked about *value* not what is deemed to be *valuable*. I agree that one product in socialist society could be considered to be more valuable than another product. I disagree that this by itself represents the social relations associated with value. It would also be the case in advanced socialist societies that one product could be deemed to be more valuable than some other products. So too under communism! Now that we have looked into the future, let's look backwards into our past. In every human society throughout history, labor has been allocated to produce different goods for which those societies associate different 'value', i.e. they consider that one product is preferred or more necessary than other products and hence are deemed to be more valuable. So too when people lived in caves! For instance, they might find a deer to be more valuable than a rabbit or strawberries to be more valuable than edible weeds. If then we are to call this valuation 'value' then we arrive at the conclusion that value has always existed in human history and always will! But, wait, it doesn't stop there. Many other species spend time engaging in harvesting (a form of production) and often eat more than one type of food. Yet, for those species that can eat more than one type of food, it is well known that different species tend to prefer some types of food over others. For instance, a lion could eat an antelope or a field rat, etc. Even a lion has to decide which prey to chase and kill and in so doing decides to allocate work effort and time on one endeavor or another. This does not require that these species understand 'concepts' such as work or time. These species could then be said to find one type of food to be more 'valuable' than other types of food. If then we call this valuation 'value' then we arrive at the conclusion that value is natural and eternal! A corollary to this is that struggle against the value system is futile. In solidarity, Jerry
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