From: Riccardo Bellofiore (riccardo.bellofiore@UNIBG.IT)
Date: Tue Mar 13 2007 - 13:11:29 EDT
too many points. few insuffficient answer: - I am not talking of history, but of capital in a very abstract sense, and assuming workers fully get the value of labour power - exploitation as surplus labour is secondary relative to my meaning: or, the prolongation of the social working day is possible because of what I underloine, which means that the problem has not to do with the distribution of labour quantities, but in the way labour is 'commanded' by capital - this 'command' is dual, both on the labour market and in the production process (se chapter VI unpublished) - I am just following ch. 21-23: it is my macro perspctive that shows how limited is the 'freedom' on the market. But the wage laborer is not, at my level of abstraction, the same as the slave or the serf. The differentia specifica must be underlined. Almost all that you affirm could be easily inserted in the development of my argument, except your too strong dichotomy between the labour market and the production process. rb At 8:49 -0800 13-03-2007, Rakesh Bhandari wrote: >>---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- >>Subject: Re: [OPE-L] What is most important in Marx's theory? >>From: "Riccardo Bellofiore" <riccardo.bellofiore@unibg.it> > > > >> >>There is nothing specifically capitalist in what you say. This is not >>Marx. It is Smith. >> >>Our (at least, my) problem is to refer (new) VALUE to ABSTRACT >>labour, with NO residue, so that the productivity of value comes out >>ONLY from labour. > >Right but from this does not follow the necessity of "the buying and >selling of labour power of free individuals (on the labour market, >prior to the production process)." > >Not all proletarians have maintained access to the labor market; one >simply could not make sense of the actual history of the capitalist >organization of much mining and agriculture in your terms. Convicts, >indentured servants and slaves have all at times performed abstract >labor in that the function of their labor has been abstract, i.e. >they have produced in the form of a commodity transubstantiated into >money, qua a social mediation, a purely quantitative claim on >abstract social labor time, as a divisible and homogeneous substance. >Moreover these produced commodities have been alienated as they has >been owned wholly by a capitalist. These formally unfree workers have >also suffered the characteristic existential vulnerability of their >wage fund being possessed by a capitalist who advances it only the >condition of their continued performance of alienated,exploited and >abstract labor, but that wage fund has been advanced in the form of >scrips, provision lots money wages of course and sometimes even >disguised as loans. I am of course not the only one who has this >understanding--for example, do you know the writings of Jairus >Banaji, Marcel van der Linden, Jan Breman, Tom Brass? > >In trying to shift the extensional base of the category of wage >labor, I am also trying to redefine its essence such that it is not >essentially defined around formal marketplace freedoms as you are >doing here. If successful my argument has very destructive effects on >the apologetic association of capitalism and worker freedom. > > > >> >>In my view the argument by Marx is very, very specific. It has to do >>with the macro, class and monetary nature of capitalism. >> >>Just a part of it. >> >>In capitalism ONLY we have the buying and selling of labour power of >>free individuals (on the labour market, prior to the production >>process). > >This is not true. If one reads Banaji and Jack Goody, we find much >evidence of undisguised formally free wage contracts long before >capitalism, but Banaji insists that the buying and selling of labor >power of "free" individuals is not sufficient for there to even be >the potentiality of the performance of abstract labor. > > > >> >>The use value of labour power is living labour, producing (surplus) >>value and (surplus) money. >> >>The capitalist(s) buy labour power of worker(s), so they have the >>right to exploit = use it. This exploitation amount to the whole >>working day. > >Well first exploitation does not amount to the whole working day. >This is basic to Marx. Second those who own labor outright or for a >circumscribed time also have to the "right to exploit=use it". > >> >>Use it means putting workers to work, i.e. living labour. >> >>AFTER the employment contract on the labour market. > > >What is this important to ensuring that living labor is abstract >especially given the definition of abstract labor that I provided >above? > >> >>Living labour may be higher than necessary labour (of course, it is >>in fact). This variability of LL relative to NL is a piece of good >>luck for the buyer(s). > >And if capitalists don't have good luck, they have and will use force >to pin the workforce down or force it into state directed unions. >There may be too much free land available for them to have good luck; >the rate of exploitation required to maintain profitability may not >be obtainable via a so called free market, so formally unfree or >child labor may be used. Shortages of labor such as in the cotton >famine Marx analyzed may lead the state to restrict emigration. These >extra economically coercive possibilities inhere in exploitation as >New World plantation slavery, South African mining and Nazi labor >policy make abundantly clear. When he was on this list Patrick Mason >made this point. I have made it. It seems to me so obvious that I >wonder why it is questioned. > > >> >>Unfortunately, the seller(s) are attached to the commodity they sell. >>Not true for sellers of corn, for example. >> >>So, AT THE SAME TIME, the labour power and the living labour CANNOT >>BUT BE the LP and the LL of the labourer. A piece of bad luck >>(potentially) for the buyers. But the good and the bad luck are >>inseparable. >> >>When capitalist(s) buy corn, if the technique is given, the quantity >>of other inputs and the output are known, determined ex ante. >> >>NOT TRUE for the commodity labour power. Technical conditions do not >>define the social working day. When living labour *varies*, the >>quantity of other inputs and the output varies. >> >>And it is typical of capitalism this "variability". The indeterminacy >>ex ante, and the uncertainty, linked to class struggle in production >>(led by both classes). >> >>Note: in feudal society, as Marx depicts it, the labourer produce an >>ex ante determined amount of surplus in kind. > >Not true in the metayer system. So this way of distinguishing >capitalism will not work. > > >>See Luxemburg on the >>wage, very good on this. In pre-capitalism it is the lot of the >>dominant classes which is determined ex ante. In capitalism, it is >>the workers'. >> >>Only as long as capitalist(s) are able to gain in this struggle at >>the point of production, creating a capitalist organisation and >>technology of production, > >But this is a different point. You have shifted from the so called >free market to the organization of production as the differentia >specific of capitalism. These are two very different points. > > >>and even hegemony and cooperation >>(Burawoy), overcoming potential conflict and counterproductivity by >>workers, they are able to get labour in the quantity and quality >>needed. >> >>Very specific to the social relations of production and the way the >>circuit of money capital and class struggle in production goes on in >>capitalism. >> >>No reference to any ahistoric notion of "activity" by labour here, if >>not as a generic feature which by itself does not explain nothing. If >>you want to explain something relative to the valorization process, >>we cannot stick to something which is true for any labour process, >>and for any society. > >right but you have not shown how the valorization process is tied to >the exchange between capital and labor power in the market; moreover, >as I have argued on this list Marx shows that this exchange is not an >exchange at all, that under the pressure of repeated exchanges what >was an exchange becomes the opposite of exchange but an appropriation >pure and simple. It's strange to make too much of formal marketplace >freedom given Marx's argument in chs 21-23 of Capital I. > >Rakesh > >> >>But I understand this looks very strange to most. To me is the basic. >> >>rb >> >>ps: I'll try to answer though briefly to other posts asap (mind the final >>"ap") >> >>At 11:00 +0100 13-03-2007, Diego Guerrero wrote: >>>Hi, Riccardo, >>> >>> >>> >>>You said: >>> >>> >>><, btw, has >>>NOTHING to do with the ahistoric feature that >>>labour is active, and nature or means of >>>production etc passive (that's why I cannpot >>>agree with the train of thought of Diego, and of >>>all those who in my view are regressing to >>>Smith). It has to do with the specific social >>>relation of capital.> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>When I say that labour is the only active element in production I just mean >>>the following: >>> >>> >>> >>>If in social production you take out any other input completely and for >>>ever, for example corn, society will experience some difficulties, but >>>production will continue. That is, it will keep being an output: matrix A >>>will be modified but still A>0. >>> >>> >>> >>>However, if you take labour out, production will stop more soon than later. >>>Then you will have neither input nor output at all, and A becomes = 0. >>> >>> >>> >>>So, without labour, the ACTION in which production consists of ceases >>>absolutely. This happens only in the case of labour. This is why I call >>>labour the only active element in production. >>> >>> >>> >>>You cannot deny this, can you? >>> >>> >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Diego
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