From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Tue Apr 24 2007 - 04:35:15 EDT
But this does not show that Lange accepted your point 4. He is still in favour of a centrally planned economy, but favours the use of a market for consumer goods. I would agree with Lange on both points. On the issue of a market for consumer goods, Even Joseph Stalin supported that. ________________________________ From: OPE-L [mailto:OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alejandro Agafonow Sent: 24 April 2007 09:16 To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Market Socialism's problems Cockshott on 04/24/2007: 4) In absence of appropriate technology a central planned economy like that proposed by classical Marxism is impossible and even though the technology would exist it implies ethical handicaps. ------------------------- Paul C I think that Lange by the mid 60s no longer accepted point 4. In a short Lange's paper originally published by Feinstein two years after Lange's death we can read illuminating passages for this matter (I have the following edition: Oskar Lange, "The Computer and the Market", in Alec Nove and D.M. Nuti (Edit.), Socialist Economics. Selected Readings, Penguin Education, [1972] 1974). In the beginning Lange wrote: Were I to rewrite my essay [On the Economic Theory of Socialism] today my task would be much simpler. My answer to Hayek and Robbins would be: so what's the trouble? Let us put the simultaneous equations on an electronic computer and we shall obtain the solution in less than a second. The market process with its cumbersome tatonnements appears old-fashioned. Indeed, it may be considered as a computing device of the pre-electronic age. (pp. 401-402) Note that market originally proposed by Lange includes only consumers' commodities but not higher order commodities. If he was thinking in suppressing consumers market he had to trust in the possibility of consumers' mind tractability by computers and the classical Marxian hope to fulfil needs ex-ante replacing the postfestum function of market. Nevertheless, Lange continuous his argument: This statement, however, may be reversed. The market simulates the electronic analog computer. In other words, the market may be considered as a computer sui generis which serves to sole a system of simultaneous equations [...] All this, however, does not mean that the market has not its relative merits. First of all, even the most powerful electronic computers have a limited capacity. There may be (and there are) economic processes so complex in terms of the number of commodities and the type of equations involved that no computer can tackle them. Or it may be too costly to construct computers of such large capacity [...] Secondly, the market is institutionally embodied in the present socialist economy. In all socialist countries (with the exception of certain periods when rationing was used) consumers' goods are distributed to the population by means of the market. Here, the market is an existing social institution and it is useless to apply an alternative accounting device. The electronic computer can be applied for purposes of prognostication but the computed forecasts have later to be confirmed by the actual working of the market. (403-404) Note that the confirmation of the computed forecast has to be done by market or what is the same thing: consumers' preferences freely expressed. This is the primary data every economy has to consider and precisely because of this the old Marx's hope of directly fulfilling social needs without the mediation of superfluous devises (market according to his mind) is impossible. In Cottrell and Cockshott's model the central planner or a cybernetic devise has to take the place of prices but always needs have to be satisfied postfestum, labour always would be the handmaid of subjective preferences. As market socialists we could ask: So, why we have to take the roundabout of labour accounting? Lets prices be formed. Nevertheless, I recognize C&C are forming a cleaver argument concerning what would be the cybernetic devises serving consumers' freedom. Maybe C&C would, at the end of their fruitful lives, be convinced by market socialism minimal research program. Best regards, Alejandro Agafonow ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Paul Cockshott <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK> Para: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Enviado: martes, 24 de abril, 2007 0:18:22 Asunto: Re: [OPE-L] Market Socialism's problems Alejandro: Yes it is. It comprises the following points accepted by all members: 1) The vindication of some sort of subjective theory of value. 2) Private property of means of production is not a necessary condition for economic calculation and economic efficiency. 3) An economy encouraging freedom to choose is a necessary condition for economic calculation and/or an ethical must. 4) In absence of appropriate technology a central planned economy like that proposed by classical Marxism is impossible and even though the technology would exist it implies ethical handicaps. ------------------------- Paul C I think that Lange by the mid 60s no longer accepted point 4. ________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/es/tagline/messenger/*http://es.voice.yahoo.com/>
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