Re: [OPE-L] Abstraction

From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Thu Jun 14 2007 - 04:05:20 EDT


Yes but averaged over the whole population there will be sufficient
people
of below average skill to compensate the people of above average skill -
that is after all, in the nature of an average.

-----Original Message-----
From: OPE-L [mailto:OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Hunt
Sent: 14 June 2007 08:48
To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Abstraction

Sorry if that was obscure. Suppose you have two workers, one skilled
the other unskilled, who each work 2 hours. The sum of their concrete
labours will be 4 hours. But if 2 hours of concrete skilled labour
equals 8 hours of abstract labour, then the sum of the abstract
labour will be 10 hours, which is not equal to the sum of the
concrete labours. But maybe I misunderstood the proposed way of
dealing with skilled labour,
Cheers,
Ian

>What about the point in the other post, that there is a mismatch
between the
>aggregate totals?  I didn't get that at all either.
>
>Howard
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ian Hunt" <ian.hunt@FLINDERS.EDU.AU>
>To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Abstraction
>
>
>>  Dear Howard,
>>  I only meant that you cannot get an ordinarily skilled person to do
>>  the work of a surgeon over a longer period of time, as you can get
an
>>  ordinarily skilled person to do the work of a bricklayer, though
over
>>  a longer period of time. Of course, surgical services are brought to
>>  market like everything else (in the US at least) and thus hare
>>  equivalent in monetary terms to so many hours of ordinarily skilled
>>  work: but this equation is not explained by a reduction of surgical
>>  labour to a multiple of ordinary labour, it is the other way round,
>>  Cheers,
>>  Ian
>>
>>  >Hi Ian,
>>  >
>>  >I don't understand the opening sentence here, either.  Tins of
bootblack
>can
>>  >be exchanged for castles, recall.  They can also be exchanged for
>>  >complicated surgery.  This is not about the character of the skill
but
>the
>>  >fact that it is taken to market.  Market is the night that turns
all
>labor
>>  >black.  For this reason the news articles Rakesh offered are
completely
>>  >relevant.  As a result of competition goods or services of the same
>quality
>>  >will tend to sell for the same price.
>>  >
>>  >Howard
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >----- Original Message -----
>>  >From: "Ian Hunt" <ian.hunt@FLINDERS.EDU.AU>
>>  >To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
>>  >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:55 PM
>>  >Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Abstraction
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >>  I don't think any number of unskilled labour hours can perform
the
>>  >>  work of a skilled surgeon, but for that reason I don't think
that the
>>  >>  hours worked by surgeons etc count as expenditures of labour
power,
>>  >>  defined as the group of skills common to all human labour:
surgery is
>>  >>  the expenditure of a skill that is not shared across people to a
>>  >>  higher or lesser degree. On the other hand, it is arguable that
an
>>  >>  amateur plumber can do plumbing work but at the cost of a lot of
>>  >>  hours finding out the regulations, planning the work, and doing
the
>>  >>  job slowly (the ratio might perhaps be 8 to 1, so nearly
everyone
>>  >>  hires a plumber, not to mention those jobs where the work has to
be
>>  >>  inspected and by regulation must be done by a qualified plumber
- so
>>  >>  bricklaying might be a better example)
>>  >>
>>  >>  >Marx says that commodities are commensurate in the market, but
there
>>  >>  >is no way to
>>  >>  >get behind the market to get a handle on the abstract labor
>>  >>  >measures.  How many
>>  >>  >hours of abstract labor does a surgeon represent.  Can 20 or 50
>>  >>  >unskilled labor
>>  >>  >perform the same procedure?
>>  >>  >  --
>>  >>  >Michael Perelman
>>  >>  >Economics Department
>>  >>  >California State University
>>  >>  >Chico, CA 95929
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >Tel. 530-898-5321
>>  >>  >E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
>>  >>  >michaelperelman.wordpress.com
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  --
>>  >>  Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
>>  >>  Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
>>  >>  Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
>>  >>  Flinders University of SA,
>>  >>  Humanities Building,
>>  >>  Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
>>  >>  Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
>>  Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
>>  Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
>>  Flinders University of SA,
>>  Humanities Building,
>  > Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
>>  Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784


--
Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
Flinders University of SA,
Humanities Building,
Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784


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