From: Dogan Goecmen (dogangoecmen@AOL.COM)
Date: Wed Dec 05 2007 - 05:15:22 EST
I think that in the period of transition the strong leadership is unavoidable.
Dogan
-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: clyder@GN.APC.ORG
An: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Verschickt: Di., 4. Dez. 2007, 23:16
Thema: Re: [OPE-L] Venezuela After the Referendum
It did strike me as odd that as a trotskyist Woods would be so
lase about constitutional changes which enhance the position
f a strong leader. It could hardly be said that 20th century
ocialism suffered from a lack of strong leaders, quite the reverse.
Tariq Ali and Dieterich seem more perceptive in their analysis
f the incipient party/state and the excessive centralisation of
ower.
> Woods doesn't mention the substance of the proposed constitutional
changes.
Since many of the changes can be legislated -- e.g. the length of the
workweek, it would seem to me to be a reasonable question to ask "what are
the KEY elements of the proposal". The legislated changes can be done
immediately.
Appointments of regional administrative officials and unlimited terms for
the President do require constitutional changes. So, would one be wrong
to
think that some of the progressive economic measures were introduced into
the proposal as a 'bribe' for popular support in order to obtain those
that
really did need a constitutional revision?
A test of the above would have been to separate the progressive economic
proposals, from something like term limits, which is pretty
straight-forward concept.
By the way, what was the precise argument for the necessity of eliminating
terms limits? As I recall, its introduction into the 1999 constitution
was
described then as being a progressive, democratic step.
Paul Z.
************************************************************************
(Vol.23) THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF 9-11-2001 "a benchmark in 9/11 research"
video summary from Snowshoe Films at http://snowshoefilms.com
(Vol.24) TRANSITIONS IN LATIN AMERICA AND IN POLAND AND SYRIA
********************* http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka
--On 12/4/2007 10:28 AM +0000 Paul Cockshott wrote:
>
>
> Note that the conclusions of Wood are rather different:
>
> Venezuela: The referendum defeat - What does it mean?
> Bay Area Indymedia - San Francisco,CA,USA
> Reformists like Heinz Dieterich are always harping on this theme like a
> repeating groove on an old gramophone record. Yes, the army is a
> decisive
> question. ...
>
>
>
> From: OPE-L [mailto:OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dogan Goecmen
> Sent: 04 December 2007 08:59
> To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
> Subject: [OPE-L] Venezuela After the Referendum
>
>
>
>
> Lessons for the Bolivarians
>
>
> Venezuela After the Referendum
>
> By TARIQ ALI
>
> Hugo Chavez' narrow defeat in the referendum was the result of
> large-scale abstentions by his supporters. 44 percent of the electorate
> stayed at home. Why? First, because they did not either understand or
> accept that this was a necessary referendum. The measures related to the
> working week and some other proposed social reforms could be easily
> legislated by the existing parliament. The key issues were the removal
> of
> restrictions on the election of the head of government (as is the case
> in
> most of Europe) and moves towards 'a socialist state.' On the latter
> there was simply not enough debate and discussion on a grassroots level.
>
> As Edgardo Lander, a friendly critic pointed out:
>
>
>
> "Before voting in favour of a constitutional reform which will define
> the
> State, the economy, and the democracy as socialist, we citizens have the
> right to take participate in these definitions. What is understood by
> the
> term socialist state? What is understood by the term socialist economy?
> What is understood by the term socialist democracy? In what way are
> these
> different to the states, economies, and democracies that accompanied
> socialism of the 20th century? Here, we are not talking about entering
> into a debate on semantics, rather on basic decisions about the future
> of
> the country."
>
>
>
> And this was further amplified by Greg Wilpert, a sympathetic journalist
> whose website, venezuelaanalysis.com, is the best source of information
> on the country:
>
>
>
> "By rushing the reform process Chavez presented the opposition with a
> nearly unprecedented opportunity to deal him a serious blow. Also, the
> rush in which the process was pushed forward opened him to criticism
> that
> the process was fundamentally flawed, which has become one of the main
> criticisms of the more moderate critics of the reform."
>
>
>
> Another error was the insistence on voting for all the proposals en bloc
> on a take it or leave it basis. It's perfectly possibly that a number of
> the proposals might have got through if a vote on each had been allowed.
> This would have compelled the Bolivarians to campaign more effectively
> at
> grassroots level through organised discussions and debates (as the
> French
> Left did to win the argument and defeat the EU Constitution ). It is
> always a mistake to underestimate the electorate and Chavez knows this
> better than most.
>
> What is to be done now? The President is in office till 2013 and
> whatever
> else Chavez may be the description of 'lame-duck' will never fit him. He
> is a fighter and he will be thinking of how to strengthen the process.
> If
> properly handled the defeat could be a blessing in disguise. It has,
> after all, punctured the arguments of the Western pundits who were
> claiming for the last eight years that democracy in Venezuela was dead
> and authoritarianism had won.
>
> Anyone who saw Chavez' speech accepting defeat last night (as I did here
> in Guadalajara with Mexican friends) will not be in any doubt regarding
> his commitment to a democratically embedded social process. That much is
> clear. One of the weaknesses of the movement in Venezuela has been the
> over-dependence on one person. It is dangerous for the person (one
> bullet
> can be enough) and it is unhealthy for the Bolivarian process. There
> will
> be a great deal of soul-searching taking place in Caracas, but the key
> now is an open debate analysing the causes of the setback and a move
> towards a collective leadership to decide on the next candidate. It's a
> long time ahead but the discussions should start now. Deepening popular
> participation and encouraging social inclusion (as envisaged in the
> defeated constitutional changes) should be done anyway.
>
> The referendum defeat will undoubtedly boost the Venezuelan opposition
> and the Right in Latin America, but they would be foolish to imagine
> that
> this victory will automatically win them the Presidency. If the lessons
> of the defeat are understood it is the Bolivarians who will win.
>
>
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>
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