From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Sun Jun 29 2008 - 08:13:59 EDT
I think that what Alejandro is saying is that irrespective of the heroism and leadership qualities shown by Fidel, the veneration of a supreme commander is an anti-democratic element in a political culture. The crisis always occurs on the demise of the 'great helmsman'. Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 1629 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu on behalf of paul bullock Sent: Sat 6/28/2008 10:20 PM To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list Subject: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad Agafonow, let me say that I can't agree at all with any of what you say here, nor do I see the pint you are trying to make. END PB ----- Original Message ----- From: Alejandro Agafonow <mailto:alejandro_agafonow@yahoo.es> To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <mailto:ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad Bullock, the problem is not if Castro is really benevolent or not. The problem is the antisocialist, antidemocratic cult to personality. Maybe Harnecker is right about the alleged benevolence of Castro. But, does it really matter? Are these pro-Cuban activist really socialists? Kind regards, A. Agafonow ----- Mensaje original ---- De: paul bullock <paulbullock@ebms-ltd.co.uk> Para: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Enviado: sábado, 28 de junio, 2008 15:27:58 Asunto: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad ? Alejandro, since Marta, as a non Cuban, lived in Cuba a long while, I would prefer to accept her opinion paul B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alejandro Agafonow <mailto:alejandro_agafonow@yahoo.es> To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <mailto:ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad Dear Dogan: Concerning Market Socialism, I'm going to consider seriously your criticism once you face it with theoretical arguments. But you have not to be a market socialist to think that Cuba is a dictatorship. From a theoretical point of view, it is enough to compare the weak constitutional programme of Cuba with the landmark of a theoretical model. For example, Cottrell and Cockshott's model conceives political groups competing for votes upon alternative plans. Once settled the planning apparatus and the constitutional programme (another thing is how they get accepted this programme), there is not a group monopolizing power. Just the opposite happens in Cuba and it is shocking to see leftist scholars denying this. To support the benevolence of the Cuban regime, you have to rest upon a cult to personality and the alleged generosity of Fidel Castro, like Martha Harnecker does indeed. It is an insult to rational human beings! Kind regards, A. Agafonow ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Dogan Göçmen <dogangoecmen@aol.com> Para: ope@lists.csuchico.edu Enviado: viernes, 27 de junio, 2008 20:41:30 Asunto: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad Sincerely, I think that Cuba is even worse than Venezuela on these matters. The reason is evident. It has an enduring dictatorial tradition. Well, action requires direction. I understand your complain. But it is not a surprise to me that you from your neither-nor position between capitalism and socialism (market socialism is nothing but this) see in Cuba dictatorship. Yes, dictatorship, but whose?, ths is the question. Dogan <http://presence.webmail.aol.com/IM/?sn=dogangoecmen&locale=de-de&pd=0----------------- Dogan Göçmen Author of The Adam Smith Problem: Reconciling Human Nature and Society in The Theory of Moral Sentiments and Wealth of Nations, I. B. Tauris, London&New York 2007 -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Alejandro Agafonow <alejandro_agafonow@yahoo.es> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Verschickt: Fr., 27. Jun. 2008, 20:27 Thema: Re: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad 1) Jerry, good libraries and theory in general have to be more important things for scientific Marxist. Praxis is important if you, in addition, militate. But without good libraries and theory you only would be able to produce works like: Clacule économique. I share the complaining of the lack of methodological pluralism in advanced capitalist world, but at universities like the recently founded and personally supported by Hugo Chávez: Universidad Bolivariana de Venezuela http://www.ubv.edu.ve/ <http://www.ubv.edu.ve/> things are even worse. There is not political pluralism and patronage and cronyism make that though sharing political values, some people are victims of "witch hunting". A close friend of mine, which is pretty much to the left of my Market Socialist position, was a victim of these usual purges. 2) You are right concerning affording tuitions before having access to libraries in SOME capitalist countries. 3) The only complain I have about these world rankings, is their English language bias. For example, the citation journals used to build the rankings are shockingly English. Nevertheless, we have to recognize that the more developed scientific editorial world is the English one. But some none Anglo-Saxon countries have successfully entered this market, like Netherlands. I have been scanning the scientific editorial world in Spanish to propose in the near future my PhD dissertation and it is astonishing closed. There are few open channels to make propositions (The literature editorial world in Spanish seems to be more developed). Sincerely, I think that Cuba is even worse than Venezuela on these matters. The reason is evident. It has an enduring dictatorial tradition. Kind regards, A. Agafonow ----- Mensaje original ---- De: GERALD LEVY <gerald_a_levy@msn.com> Para: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Enviado: viernes, 27 de junio, 2008 19:20:19 Asunto: RE: [OPE] Advice to a postgrad > Action is good but concerning Science, good libraries and a pluralist environment are even better. Alejandro A: For a Marxian, praxis should be more important than a good library. There are only a handfull of colleges globally where the economics departments could be legitimately described as being as being "pluralist". As far as I know, there is not a single economics department in the advanced capitalist world in which the economics of socialism is an area of specialization. > Unfortunately, you can not find either of them in Venezuela today. Oh, I think there is much more pluralism in Venezuela than you recognize! I'm not sure about the situation with libraries, though. But, at least the _people_ can use university libraries in Venezuela as opposed to the situation at most of the elite colleges in the 'North' where you first have to afford the tuition before you are allowed access to university resources. > We don't even have a single university among the best 500 in the world. I just looked at that listing. It is shockingly US- and Euro-Centric. > In addition, as non English speaking political economist I recommend to take advantage of the dynamism > of the English speaking scholarly institutions. There is more dynamism in a day in Venezuela than in a year at an elite college in the West. There is a tremendous amount of dynamism in Cuba today as well. Dynamism is what students have when they enter graduate school in the West. In the course of their studies and experience, it is generally shaken out of them. 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