Re: [OPE] Latin America

By trying to smuggle in 'constructive criticism' from outside of Cuba, uninvited, outside of the living movement, you will not help anyone but those who need more paint to blacken the picture. It is high time all this opinionating stopped. Reflection has to be part of action. For example what steps are we taking to break the blockade on Cuba? How do we undermine its supporters... eg Bacardi co.? How do we LEARN from how the Cuban's have managed basic problems forced on them by Imperialism? Perhaps more learning and less ' criticism', more modesty and less 'know it all' might be far more 'constructive'.

Paul B.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Alejandro Agafonow
  To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list
  Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [OPE] Latin America

  Dogan: 'I support the general tendency in Cuba and Venezuela to establish a socialist society. This does not mean I am not critical. But my critique intends to improve rather than obstucle the development toward a socialist society.'

  What is your constructive criticism to Cuba and Venezuela? How it deals with the cutting of negative liberties?

  A. Agafonow

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  De: "dogangoecmen@aol.com" <dogangoecmen@aol.com>
  Para: ope@lists.csuchico.edu
  Enviado: domingo, 14 de diciembre, 2008 14:11:05
  Asunto: Re: [OPE] Latin America

  Paul Z
  =======
  Indeed, if I hear someone in demo giving "unconditional support" to the Cuban government or the Venezuelan government, I react that the person is either immature politically or, worse, a Stalinist. At minimum, it is ineffective as a turn of phrase trying to capture opposition to my country's practices abroad, i.e., U.S. imperialism.

  Dogan
  ======
  I think you simplify things. I am probabily not the first one on the list who said that he/she supports Cuban and Venezuelan government uncondionally. When I said that I referred to Clara Zetkin who had a similar approach in raltion to October revolution. When she said that she did mean to support every single political mesure. That what she supported was the general tendecy of the revolutionary government to break out of capitalis/imperialist world system and establish a socialist society. So you can not say she was politically premature or a Stalinst. Similarly I support the general tendency in Cuba and Venezuela to establish a socialist society. This does not mean I am not critical. But my critique intends to improve rather than obstucle the development toward a socialist society.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Paul Zarembka <zarembka@buffalo.edu>
  To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
  Sent: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:45
  Subject: Re: [OPE] Latin America

  Paul B.,
   
  Thanks for your elaboration on the ANC.
   
  However, your subsequent paragraph copied below contradicts "unconditional support" for any foreign state, it being that "airy opinion" you reproach. Indeed, if I hear someone in demo giving "unconditional support" to the Cuban government or the Venezuelan government, I react that the person is either immature politically or, worse, a Stalinist. At minimum, it is ineffective as a turn of phrase trying to capture opposition to my country's practices abroad, i.e., U.S. imperialism.
   
  Paul Z.
   
  --On 12/11/2008 12:16 AM +0000 paul bullock wrote:
   
> It seems to me that the task of communists/ socialists/ democrats in the
> imperialist states is to expose and fight against the activities of their
> own state, and businesses in continuing to exploit the nominally
> independent state, not give airy opinion about, or unwanted advice to the
> movements that are struggling against imperialism.
>
   
   
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  (Vol.23) THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF 9-11 Seven Stories Press soft, 2nd ed. 2008
  (Vol.24) TRANSITIONS IN LATIN AMERICA ~~~Research in Political Economy~~~
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka
   
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Received on Sun Dec 14 17:55:36 2008