Re: [OPE] market - and other kinds of - socialism

Paul, If it is not wrong on my part to take out a sentence like this from your comments, you said: "and this is only to be discussed, by the working class itself,� as they create such societies." I would like to know who constitute 'working class'? Are we�[those who are engaged in mental occupations of teaching, research or some such activity] not part of working class, though the upper stratum of it? I hope�you won't misunderstand me that I�am diverting the�debate. Bapuji � B.R.Bapuji, Professor, Centre for Applied Linguistics & Translation Studies [CALTS], University of Hyderabad, Central University post office, HYDERABAD-500 046. (Phone: 040-23133655,23133650 or 23010161). Residence address: 76, Lake-side Colony, Near Durgam Cheruvu,�[End of Road opp:Madapur Police Station], Jubilee Hills post, Hyderabad-500033. (Phone: 040-23117302) � ________________________________ From: Paul Bullock <paulbullock@ebms-ltd.co.uk> To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 9:40:44 PM Subject: Re: [OPE] market - and other kinds of - socialism The point to remember is that capitalist societies will have a common structure of exploitation and reproduction. Socialist societies that are this able to run the show , ratehr than having the show run them, will show a very great variation in structure and experiment, and this is only to be discussed, by the working class itself,� as they create such societies. We can't have the answer before the answer, and we have to build it. On 02/05/2011 14:24, GERALD LEVY wrote: >> now back to me: i take it that the discussion is really centering on >> the third of these ideas. however, i just do not understand the use of >> the noun, socialism, here. there is nothing socialist about china: the >> state is operating as a capitalist. like any capitalist, it has >> various uses for the surplus that its capitalist production generates: >> some is expended, some is accumulated. and like any capitalist, it >> seeks to use (other arms of) the state to advance its own interests: >> eg, infrastructure-building stimulus packages. i know that the term >> 'market socialism' is still used by the leadership, but that's >> placating the masses (especially those older folk who thought that on >> balance mao was pretty good for ordinary people). > > > Michael W: > > Thanks for your clarifications via 'Wikipedia' of the different meanings of > market socialism. > > In so far as China is concerned, I was specifically referring to the > Deng Xiaoping 'socialist market economy' experience - which had a lot of > similarities to the Right Opposition's proposals in the > industrialization debates in the USSR in the late 1920s (which were > advanced by Bukharin) and the proposals to restructure the Soviet > economy under Gorbachev (perestroika). One could similarly identify > similarities - and differences, of course - between what happened in > China under Deng and the Lange-Kalecki conception of market socialism > and the experiences with market socialism in Hungary under the NEM, the > former Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and other Eastern European nations > (especially those which were part of COMECON). [NB: AS I explicitly noted > in the last sentence, there are similarities *and differences* in these > experiences: e.g. there was workers' control of enterprises in Yugoslavia > under Tito whereas the managers who directed enterprises in the NEM in > Hungary were state-appointed. Some of the institutions and their role in > China, such as the influence of the PLA, were also distinct.] > > In� solidarity, Jerry > >> That's why I originally in this thread raised the subject in terms of >> economic history (including the experience of market socialism in >> the former Yugoslavia, China under Deng Xiaoping, Hungary >> under the NEM beginning in 1968, etc.).� ��� ��� ��� � ��� ��� > _______________________________________________ > ope mailing list > ope@lists.csuchico.edu > https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/ope > > _______________________________________________ ope mailing list ope@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/ope

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Received on Tue May 3 01:35:25 2011