A reply to one issue addressed in Duncan's 3-parter, Alan's 4-parter, and 
Duncan's response (ope-l 2915) of this evening.  There is obviously more that 
I need to and want to say, but the following can be discussed in independence 
from the rest, and it is all I have time for before leaving town (and the 
list) for the long weekend. 
I think it is *the* single most crucial issue under discussion at this moment.
Duncan's latest post states:  'I think that Okishio and certainly Roemer do 
make the equivalent of (E) explicit in their definition of the "general rate 
of profit".'   "(E)" stands for the following postulate (which I've edited 
slightly for concision):  "an input/output economy [considered] in a state 
where input prices are equal  to output prices and profit rates are equalised" 
both before and after "a  viable technique  is introduced into the economy." 
I *think* Duncan's statement indicates that we have come to a very important 
agreement in this discussion. That is, *if* Okishio or Roemer state (E) or the 
equivalent explicitly in their major presentations of the "Okishio Theorem," 
then the theorem has not been refuted in the narrow sense.  However, *if* they 
do not state (E) or the equivalent explicitly, then the theorem has been 
refuted, even in the narrow sense. 
To be perfectly clear, it is best to state the following explicitly (!):
(i)  "Refutation in the narrow sense" means a demonstration that the 
conclusions concerning the direction of change in "the profit rate" or "the 
equilibrium profit rate" do not necessarily follow from the explicitly stated 
premises of the theorem.
(ii)  An "equivalent" of (E) will include some statement that equality of 
input and output prices is being invoked as a postulate or premise or 
assumption, or some statement that, by postulate, premise, assumption, or 
definition, "profit rate," "equilibrium rate of profit," or "general profit 
rate," etc. is restricted to refer only to cases in which input and output 
prices are equal.   
(iii)  A statement such as "the equilibrium profit rate will be given by p = 
p(A+bl)(1+r)" could be either a definition of r or a claim of a derived 
result.  Therefore, taken alone, such statements do not constitute explicit 
definitions.  
I am definitely prepared to accept this.  It seems to me that Alan and Duncan 
are as well.  Yes?
If so, then this is a tremendous step forward in clarifying the issues.  We 
will then have a simple, unambiguous empirical test of my claim to have 
refuted the theorem in the narrow sense (though John came first, of course).  
Upon presenting a statement of (E), or the equivalent, made by Okishio or 
Roemer, the presenter will have proven my claim to be false.  I will retract 
it publicly, explicitly, in print (if I'm allowed).   Otherwise, a valid 
counterexample to the theorem has been put forth, and this should be 
acknowledged.
Andrew Kliman