A reply to Michael Williams' ope-l 4866.
I didn't mean to "shout."  *Putting a long clause between asterisks doesn't 
really emphasize anything* and _putting a long clause between underlines 
doesn't really emphasize anything either_, and CAPS ARE THE ONLY OTHER THING 
THE MEDIUM ALLOWS.
Michael writes:  "... this passage ... makes quite clear that products of 
labour become commodities only when exchange is ubiquitous, and that it is 
only then 'that their character as value etc...'. My gloss on this is that it 
is only then that the producers take the character of products as values into 
consideration during production. And how do they 'take this into 
consideration'? IMO, by precommensuration, which they are able to do because 
they can see all around them (in the exchange relations that have 'acquired 
sufficient extension') the money form of value of all the various means of 
production that they have to take into consideration."
"What do you think of that, Andrew?"
I agree with almost everything, and perhaps everything, depending on what 
"precommensuration" means.  I agree fully with the first two sentences.
"Precommensuration" might mean that the products are already commensurable 
before they exchange, because they are already values, and that this 
commensurability attains actual existence by means of money's existence as a 
universal equivalent, so that the means of production are regarded as values 
by virtue of being equivalent to certain sums of money.  If so, then I agree 
with this interpretation, i.e., with everything Mike has written here.  This 
conception is spelled out rather clearly, I think, in the Resultate (see 
Capital I, Vintage, pp. 952-53).
On the other hand, "precommensuration" might mean that the firms are guessing 
at what the value of the product *will be*, but that the product is not a 
value (or is a mere "potential" value) before it is sold.   If so, then I do 
not think Marx agreed with this, in light of the evidence and more like it 
that I have noted. 
Let me make two distinctions that might help advance the discussion.  
(1) On the one hand, Marx held that the circulation process is necessary for 
products of labor to be values.  Without the existence of the circulation 
process, value could not attain actual existence (it would lack a "form of 
appearance").   On the other hand, he maintained that labor-product A, 
produced at time t, is a value at time t, and does not need to traverse the 
circulation process sucessfully in order to become a value.  
(2)  On the one hand, Marx held that the circulation process is necessary for 
products of labor to be values.  On the other hand, he maintained that value 
is not *created* in circulation. 
Is this hairsplitting?  I don't think so.  Rather, both distinctions concern 
the difference between the coming-into-existence of the *category* "commodity 
and the coming-into-existence of an *actual, particular* commodity.  I think 
the distinctions are essential to Marx's successivist outlook.   All kinds of 
things must be present simultaneously for value to exist (production, 
circulation, the Sun, ...), but that doesn't mean that this particular quantum 
of value is simultaneously determined by all the conditions of its existence.  
It must *first* exist *before* it is exchanged with another value.  (In this 
regard, the commodity exchange relation,  x commodity A = y commodity B, 
differs from the direct exchange of products,  x use-value A = y use-value B.)
Andrew Kliman