From: rakeshb@stanford.edu
Date: Wed Mar 12 2003 - 14:44:57 EST
The threats and insults made by Bush against Europe are much less menacing than those directed against Mexico and, even more perversely as Krugman pointed out in the NYT, Mexican-Americans. This is truly a clash of barbarisms as Achcar says in reply to Huntington. Rakesh Quoting mongiovg <mongiovg@stjohns.edu>: > Pardon me for not appending the obligatory condemnation of western > hypocrisy > and bougeois values. I foolishly assumed that those caveats would not > have to > be rehearsed to members of this list; hence my "One need not > romanticize the > Atlantic alliance or its members ...." > > My point was that what's happening now isn't just your standard-issue > hardball > diplomacy, which is of course one of the ways that western hypocrisy > plays > itself out. The Bush message is "Cross us and we're gonna fuck you > up, and we > don't even have to pay lip service to democracy, freedom, decades of > good > diplomatic relations, warm ties of friendhip between countless > members of our > populations, our shared cultural heritage and our mutually beneficial > economic > ties; who gives a shit about any of that stuff? Why don't we give a > shit? > Because we don't have to, that's why." That implicit message strikes > me as a > dangerous departure from precedent. > > The fact that what was in place prior to the Bush offensive left much > to be > desired doesn't negate my suggestion that what is happening now is > extremely > dangerous for global security and prosperity. Nor does it deny the > necessity > of exploring " the material motives for these bourgeois countries' > behaviors" > as Paul rightly notes. Nothing I wrote implies anything different. > > > Gary > > > >===== Original Message From Paul Zarembka <zarembka@buffalo.edu> > ===== > >On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, mongiovg wrote: > > > >> This is mind-boggling, and, for me, as disturbing as any recent > >> development connected with the Iraq situation. One need not be a > >> romantic about the Atlantic alliance, or its members, to think > that > >> the Bush government's attempt to demonize France & Germany to the > >> American public is reckless and dangerous. These countries share > a > >> commitment to values that are indispensable to global peace and > >> prosperity: democracy, human and civil rights, free speech, rule > of > >> law--the whole Enlightenment thing. > > > >... > > > >Wow, this idealization of the French and German governments is > >unbelievable (and romantic). Of course, the 'freedom' fries is > also > >unbelievable, but let's get just a shade critical and consider > material > >motives for these bourgeois countries' behaviors. Paul > > > >*********************************************************************** > >"Confronting 9-11, Ideologies of Race, and Eminent Economists", Vol. > 20 > >RESEARCH IN POLITICAL ECONOMY, Paul Zarembka, editor, Elsevier > Science > >******************** > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka > >
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