[OPE-L:7133] [OPE-L:635] RE: Relational properties of exchange with money [OPE-L 608]

Brendan Tuohy (reg@reddfish.co.nz)
Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:54:00 +1300

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6A66.F99FF210
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just a quick response to a couple of points.

Alan writes:
I'm very rushed but I think I'm quite happy with Brendan's =
axiomatisation in
which money is assumed from the outset.=20

Brendan: Actually my subject heading was wrong. Money is NOT assumed =
from the outset - what is assumed is the general form of value not the =
money form, a universal equivalent rather than money.

Alan: [...] However, I think
it is useful to begin without supposing money. There are two reasons for =
this;
analytically, I don't like to begin by supposing something whose =
properties
one seeks to derive. I think this was Marx's reasoning and I think his
correspondence, writings and remarks on this question establish that he
considered important to *derive* money from the commodity and not to
presuppose it

Brendan: I agree we should not suppose money, but I think we have to =
assume a unversal equivalent if we want to follow Marx's own approach, =
because it is only with the general (universal equivalent) form of value =
that he introduces transitivity, a crucial property to establish =
equivalence.=20

And although I personally am prepared to go along with reflexive direct =
exchange, it's fair to say that Marx's argument does not directly use or =
require it. Exchange via a universal equivalent is unproblematically =
reflexive.

So I think it's futile to attempt an axiomatisation of Marx's chapter 1 =
argument using only direct exchange.=20

Alan: The second reason is a practical one; there is not, in most =
markets, a single
money. There are at least three competing world-currencies, setting =
aside the
many national monies, and each of these monies has many different forms. =
The
category of 'money', supposed as if there was only one, is therefore a =
bit
problematic.

Brendan: The axiomatisation I gave would also apply to several =
"universal equivalent" commodities, provided they were each universal.=20

And I think you could axiomatise a more complex relation of "exchange =
via (potentially several) 'universal' equivalent commodities" that would =
allow for the quasi-money commodities each being exchangeable for only a =
subset of commodities, so long as they were exchangeable for each other. =
It wouldn't add anything useful in the current context though.

Brendan
------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6A66.F99FF210
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6A66.F99FF210--