[OPE-L:4626] retracting criticism of Fred

From: Rakesh Narpat Bhandari (rakeshb@Stanford.EDU)
Date: Wed Dec 06 2000 - 20:31:52 EST


I should say that the more I think about it, Fred's interpretation of 
what is happening in chapter 9 certainly has much to recommend it.

For if Marx is indeed laying out one period in a realistic sequence, 
it is certainly untenable to assume that the inputs were actually 
bought at prices proportional to orin my shorthand <> value.

Once Marx shows us upon completion of his second table that prices 
are not directly regulated by value at t + 1, we can assume that the 
inputs sold at t0 at  market prices close to their prices of 
production. So if we had assumed before that the the prices paid 
directly for means of production and indirectly for wage goods at t0 
were proportional to their values, we would be wrong--as Fred has 
been saying.

As Fred eloquently puts it:

"What changes is the EXPLANATION of this
"given precondition". After the determination of prices of production, we
have a more complete explanation of this "given precondition" than we did
before.  Before we assumed that the given cost price was proportional to
the labor-values of the means of production and the means of
subsistence.  But now we can see that the cost price is also affected by
the equalization of profit rates across industries.  Therefore, if one
assumed that the cost price is proportional to these labor-values, that
would be "wrong".  But the magnitude of the given cost price remains the
same.  And the magnitude of the surplus-value also remains the same, as
the excess of the value of commodities over this given cost price."

Perhaps what perhaps changes is that we have a two pronged, rather 
than single,   explanation for price-value divergences.

That is,  a value of a commodity is

(1) Lp + Lc.

where Lp is the labor value of the means of production  and Lc newly 
added value or current labor.

Marx has been assuming a fixed value of money as a constant such that 
values are proportional to prices

(3) (Lp + Lc)m <> P

<> indicates proportionality

Marx drops the constant and refers to Lp and Lc as value or V, which gives

(4) V <> P

Marx refers to P as "value price"

But the price of production of a commodity is

(5) k + kp

k is cost price and p the average rate of profit.

The price  of production is not proportional (><) to commodity value

(6) V >< k + kp

Now what is forgotten is that there are TWO reasons for 
disproportionality (capital 3, p. 309).

(a) because the average profit is added to the cost price of a 
commodity rather than surplus value contained in it

(b) because the price of production of a commodity that diverges in 
this way from its value enters as an element into the cost price of 
other commodities, which means that a divergence from the value of 
the means of production consumed may already be contained in the cost 
price, quite part from the divergence that may arise for the 
commodity itself from the difference between average profit and 
surplus value.

  There is indeed a correction needed in terms of Marx's transformation tables.

Marx had assumed that the price paid for the means of production in 
each period is proportional to the value which has been transferred 
from their use. In Marx's tableau he has equated that part of the 
cost price of a commodity paid for the used up means of production 
with the value of those means as used up and transferred to the final 
product.

If this is what Marx is saying, it is not the inputs which have to be 
transformed or the cost price modified. It is the exact opposite!!!

It is rather the output values which are wrong to the extent that 
value transferred from the used up means of production has been 
equated with the cost price of the used up means of production.

Marx had assumed that the value transferred from the means of 
production in each period was the same as the price paid for those 
means in each period.

But we cannot assume that the value transferred from the means of 
production is proportional the price paid for them--that is, the used 
up c column in his initial table distorts the value transferred to 
the final product by assuming it proportional to price paid for the 
used up means of production.

So there are two reasons for price-value divergences: one based on 
the divergence between surplus value and profit and one based on the 
divergence between the price of the used up means and the value which 
has been transferred from those means.

This brings me back however to my disagreement with Fred over how the 
value transferred from the means of production is determined.



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