No Rakesh, From my point of view, and Bose's, I haven't confused physical productivity with value productivity. Bose's argument is quite different in style to mine--and well worth reading. We both find a more direct link between physical and value productivity than exists with the LTV, but our routes to that conclusion differ. My route is directly from the concepts of use-value and exchange-value. I argue that use-value is quantitative in the M--C--M+ circuit, and measured in value units, and the two magnitudes are incommensurable with each other in the sense Marx meant, which was that one plays no role in determining the other *for strict commodities*. This incommensurability means there will be a difference between the use-value and the exchange-value of *any* input to production--no input is privileged above any other. All are potential sources of surplus-value. The analysis is more complex when one takes into account the fact that neither labor nor machinery are strict commodities in the sense Marx considers them in the first 9 chapters of capital--as indeed neither is money, which Marx nonetheless also treats as a commodity in that section of his analysis. When one allows for the non-commodity aspects of labor and of machinery (and money), you get complications to this basic result. However, the basic result remains accurate given the issues from which it abstracts. Take a careful look at the section of capital after the quote I have given--in the Progress Press edition, from pages 188-199. Disregard the issue of whether my interpretation of Marx is or is not valid: just look at how Marx attempts to make the case that machinery does not produce surplus-value. You will see that an enormous part of his argument is in terms of the use-value and exchange-value of machinery. I argue that he achieved the result he wanted by erroneously equating the use-value of the machine to its exchange-value--whereas when talking of labor, he was adamant that the two (value) quantities are incommensurable. I regard this as the error of logic which preserved the labor theory of value. I don't hold an iceblock in hell's chance of convincing you of my argument, and I'm not attempting to do so. What I am trying to point out to you, however, is the extent to which the intellectual challenge Marx set himself in this crucial part of capital was expressed in terms of the use-value and exchange-value of machinery. I believe that the vast majority of marxists miss this issue completely (the only ones who ever saw it were Hilferding, Rosdolsky, Groll, Desai, and me). Steve At 10:16 PM 3/21/01 -0800, you wrote: >>Dear Rakesh, >> >>please read my posts more carefully. >> >>I was quoting Arun Bose in the section you highlighted. > >Yes, Steve, I understand that I am expressing a criticism of Bose's >conclusion with which you are expressing assent (and I'll look for Bose's >book in the library). But the question remains: have you and Bose confused >the possibility of an indirect effect on surplus value from the use value >of a machine with the thesis that the use value of a machine (that is dead >labor) is itself directly productive of new value? > >I'll reattach my original post since you did not respond to it. > > > > >>> >>>It seems to me that you are conflating use value and value, the >>>determination of the physical quantities produced and the determination >>>of the value of the produced output. >>> >>>Marx is not saying that the use value of labor power is the only source >>>of surplus produce, defined as the physical quantity of goods over and >>>above those needed for replacement of the goods consumed in production. >>> >>>The physical quantity of commodities produced is determined by the >>>quality and quantity of the consumed means of production, the quantity >>>and quality of the direct labor employed and the interaction of tools >>>and direct labor (e.g., more will be produced if better tools are >>>employed by more skilled labor). >>> >>>(1) Qmp + Qlp + (QmpxQlp) => Quv >>> >>>In the above we count means of production and labor power of greater >>>quality simply as a greater quantity. >>> >>>Now no one is denying that the physical quantities produced are >>>determined as much by the use value of the machine as the use value of >>>labor power. Indeed in an advanced economy, it may make most sense to >>>say that it is the interaction between machine and workers which best >>>accounts for the quantities produced. >>> >>>However, no matter how great or little in quantity the use values >>>produced, their value is determined as the sum of indirect and direct >>>labor time. >>> >>>(2) Lmp + Lc => V >>> >>> >>>Now of course if labor is more physically productive in use value terms >>>due to use of a better machine, the rate of exploitation can be higher >>>in value terms since (assuming a constant real wage) there will be a >>>reduction in the variable capital which has to be advanced to allow >>>workers to buy the wage goods which they need. >>> >>>(For the same reason, there could be a gain in surplus value from a >>>reduction in the constant capital which has to be advanced to purchase >>>the means of production needed to absorb surplus labor). >>> >>>So yes it can be said--and here perhaps I break with Michael W-- that >>>the use value of the machine INDIRECTLY contributes to the determination >>>of which portion of total value is surplus value no less than the use >>>value of labor power directly determines the sum of surplus value produced. >>> >>>But I don't think this is what you are saying. >>> >>>Yours, Rakesh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Dr. Steve Keen Senior Lecturer Economics & Finance Campbelltown, Building 11 Room 30, School of Economics and Finance UNIVERSITY WESTERN SYDNEY LOCKED BAG 1797 PENRITH SOUTH DC NSW 1797 Australia s.keen@uws.edu.au 61 2 4620-3016 Fax 61 2 4626-6683 Home 02 9558-8018 Mobile 0409 716 088 Home Page: http://bus.uws.edu.au/steve-keen/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon Apr 02 2001 - 09:57:29 EDT