Fred, >And what exactly is "real > determination"? How is "real determination" related to "conceptual > determination"? If the determinations of science are causal, then "real determination" would be a theoretical expression of causal relations; a "conceptual determination" would be theoretical, but might be logical only, not causal. Howard > [Original Message] > From: Fred B. Moseley <fmoseley@mtholyoke.edu> > To: <ope-l@galaxy.csuchico.edu> > Date: 6/6/2002 12:53:03 AM > Subject: [OPE-L:7343] Re: Re: Re: interpreting Marx's texts > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Rakesh Bhandari wrote: > > > re 7328 > > > > > > > >What do others think about Shaikh's argument here, reproduced by Rakesh? > > > > > >It makes no sense to me. It has always seemed mystifying to me. I do not > > >understand the distinction between "conceptual determination" and "real > > >determination". I thought conceptual determination (i.e. a theory) was > > >supposed to explain the real determination (in reality). If the "real > > >determination" was that values determine the physical production > > >quantities, then the "conceptual determination" would explain how this > > >happens, and how the specific quantities are determined. > > > > Dear Fred, > > I hesitate to reply because it would be wonderful if Anwar elaborated > > the argument himself. Please do note that I only quoted a small part > > of the argument, so consultation of the original is important. > > > > Anwar seems to use conceptual determination and calculation interchangeably. > > I think the argument is clearer if we use only the latter term. > > I offered an analogy which may have failed. > > > > My simple point was that there can be methods of calculation which > > may give the right result which do not lay bare the real process of > > determination. > > > Rakesh, I have two questions of clarification for now: > > 1. What do you think is the difference between "conceptual > determination" and "calculation"? Why do you prefer "calculation" over > "conceptual determination"? And what exactly is "real > determination"? How is "real determination" related to "conceptual > determination"? > > 2. What would you say Marx was doing in the determination of prices of > production in Part 2 of Volume 3: "real determination" or "conceptual > determination" or "calculation"? > > > I look forward to your replies and to further discussion. > > Comradely, > Fred --- ho
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