[OPE-L:7375] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: interpreting Marx's texts

From: Fred B. Moseley (fmoseley@mtholyoke.edu)
Date: Tue Jun 11 2002 - 00:40:07 EDT

On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, howard Engelskirchen wrote:

> Fred,
> >And what exactly is "real
> > determination"?  How is "real determination" related to  "conceptual
> > determination"?
> If the determinations of science are causal, then "real determination"
> would be a theoretical expression of causal relations;  a "conceptual
> determination" would be theoretical, but might be logical only, not causal.
> Howard

Howard, thanks for your response to my question.

I agree with your emphasis that science presents causal relations.

My question in previous posts had to do with Shaikh's meaning of
"real determination" and "conceptual determination" or "calculation" in
his response to Samuelson's and Steedman's critique that the labor theory
of value is redundant.  Are you suggesting that your meanings of these
terms are Shaikh's meanings?  Or are you just suggesting meanings of your

I don't understand what you mean by a "conceptual determination" that
"would be theoretical, but might be logical only, not causal."  
Could you please explain further, and give an example of such a
"conceptual determination", and perhaps also explain how this might relate
to the debate between Shaikh and the critics of Marx.



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