Re: (OPE-L) dreams and nightmares

From: Riccardo Bellofiore (riccardo.bellofiore@UNIBG.IT)
Date: Sat May 17 2003 - 08:53:43 EDT


Nothing. Actually, I think that open debate may even be a good thing
for Cuba (see the article by Pietro Ingrao, which you should be able
to read).But I respect the worries of those on the list who thinks
differently. So, I would in public still endorse my opinions (as
chris says, carefully crafting my words, which for me means writing
in Italian). And I have the liberty of speaking to comrades I respect
arguing they are plainly wrong: even in insisting in making 'wild'
comments about parliamentary stupidity, armchair intellectuals etc.

r

At 20:43 +1000 17-05-2003, Nicola Taylor wrote:
>Nice!  But this seems (to me) a lot to ask of Jerry, who is already doing a
>superhuman job of keeping this site going (along with Alfredo, Fred and
>Allin).  What is wrong with simply expressing a 'personal opinion' in a
>public forum??  That is anyway what I have been doing...
>
>Nicky
>
>
>>  I think Chris is right on openness. May I ask Jerry if it is possible
>>  to open for these kind of discussions a parallel closed site?
>>
>>  r
>>
>>  At 13:02 +0100 17-05-2003, Christopher Arthur wrote:
>>  >And I say I agree with Riccardo. (And also Fred)
>>  >But this illustrates also why I was, and remain, opposed  to a public
>>  >archive. I would like to hear a discussion and particpate but I do not
>want
>>  >to word things as carefully as I would in a letter to the press.
>>  >Chris A
>>  >
>>  >>At 11:22 -0600 16-05-2003, Hans Ehrbar wrote:
>>  >>>In the times of imperialist attack on Cuba I consider it the
>>  >>>duty of every progressive either to support Cuba or, if you
>>  >>>feel you cannot do this, to stay silent, because everything
>>  >>>critical you say at this moment will be used as further
>>  >>>pretext for the attacks on Cuba.  The actions by the Cubans
>>  >>>which you object to were undertaken as a defense against US
>>  >>>attacks.  We have to try to stop the imperialists, instead
>>  >>>of second-guessing the actions Cuba is undertaking to defend
>>  >>>itself.  This seems so obvious to me that I am embarrassed
>>  >>>to send it to this list.  I am only saying it for the record
>>  >>>so that people perusing the archives will not get a false
>>  >>>impression.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>Hans.
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>hans, four (no, five) things:
>>  >>
>>  >>(i) we decided to 'open' the list, so we decided to make debates
>>  >>openly. if we don't want that, we should close the list. or Jerry
>>  >>should open some parallel, closed site to discuss openly among
>>  >>comrades this kind of stuff.
>>  >>
>>  >>(ii) 'to stay silent'? I don't know why, but I have heard this kind
>>  >>of things many many times. I don't like the expression: neither the
>>  >>form nor the substance.
>>  >>
>>  >>(iii) I strongly support Cuba against US attacks. I repeat: strongly.
>>  >>And I condemn any 'pretext' to attack Cuba. But I do not justify the
>>  >>actions undertaken by Cuba, as you do. By the way, they are giving
>>  >>USA more 'pretexts'. There is a dissent among us on this. You cannot
>>  >>take your opinion as granted. I respect it, but mine is very
>>  >>different.
>>  >>
>>  >>(iv) in my mind (and unfortunately I can think only with my mind, and
>>  >>speak accordingly) what I said in prior mail is exactly the most
>  > >>friendly approach to Cuba, it' s the only way I see to support Cuba:
>  > >>avoid (or insist in) serious and dramatic errors. there is no
>  > >>second-guessing. those actions are patently wrong, are against what
>>  >>communism (at least, libertarian communism) is and should be, as end
>>  >>and as means.
>>  >>
>>  >>(v) should I say that those who do not understand this are really
>>  >>working against Cuba, and should then stay silent? it's not my
>>  >>attitude, frankly. I am interested in listening their opinions and
>>  >>arguments.
>>  >>
>>  >>r
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >17 Bristol Road, Brighton, BN2 1AP, England
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Riccardo Bellofiore
>>  Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche
>>  "Hyman P. Minsky"
>>  Via dei Caniana 2
>>  I-24127 Bergamo, Italy
>>  e-mail:   riccardo.bellofiore@unibg.it
>>  direct    +39-035-2052545
>  > secretary +39-035 2052501
>>  fax:      +39 035 2052549
>>  homepage: http://www.unibg.it/dse/homebellofiore.htm
>>
>>  Al signor K chiesero cosa stesse facendo.
>>  Il signor K rispose: "Sto lavorando duro
>>  per preparare il mio prossimo errore"
>>
>>  What are you working on, Herr K was asked.
>>  Herr K replied: "I am working hard,
>>  I am carefully preparing my next error"
>>
>>  Bertolt Brecht


--
Riccardo Bellofiore
Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche
"Hyman P. Minsky"
Via dei Caniana 2
I-24127 Bergamo, Italy
e-mail:   riccardo.bellofiore@unibg.it
direct    +39-035-2052545
secretary +39-035 2052501
fax:      +39 035 2052549
homepage: http://www.unibg.it/dse/homebellofiore.htm

Al signor K chiesero cosa stesse facendo.
Il signor K rispose: "Sto lavorando duro
per preparare il mio prossimo errore"

What are you working on, Herr K was asked.
Herr K replied: "I am working hard,
I am carefully preparing my next error"

Bertolt Brecht


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