Re: (OPE-L) Re: The Church-Turing thesis

From: Ian Wright (ian_paul_wright@HOTMAIL.COM)
Date: Tue Jan 20 2004 - 18:01:20 EST


Hello Andy

>I would have thought that dialectical logic is precisely a sublation of
>formal logic which means that it can never be 'formalised': it cannot
>be captured in a formal system. The failure of logicism, the
>reduction of maths to logic, (a failure I take Godel to have proved)
>can be viewed in this light.

I am not an expert on this only knowledgeable. Before answering your
question I would just like to reflect on the following. The development of
the theory of universal computation and the construction of the first
computers has profoundly affected almost all scientific disciplines.
Mathematics has become more experimental, the first proofs relying on
automated deduction have appeared, and constructive approaches to
philosophical foundations have experienced a renaissance. Psychology has
been transformed by computation, and mutated into cognitive science, which
takes information processing as its core paradigm, and almost all philosophy
of mind is now conducted either explicitly for or against computational
theories. Entirely new fields of science have appeared, such as artificial
intelligence and theoretical computer science. More recently the theory of
computation has seen to be fundamental and important in physical theories,
for example arguments over whether computational laws are more fundamental
then physical laws, the idea of "it" from "bit", particularly via the
emerging interest in digital physics, and the possibility of quantum
computation. Economics has not been immune from the influence of
computation, as masterfully explored in Philip Mirowski's "Machine Dreams",
which I thoroughly recommend. The picture I am trying to paint is one of
slow but seemingly unstoppable colonisation of almost all aspects of
scientific knowledge by what can roughly be described as computational
theories, or at least computational metaphors and talk. I'd say we've had
about fifty years of this process, which is not very long. There is
something about the computational approach that is not only very useful, for
researchers of different disciplines don't use new tools unless they help,
but also very universal, given the pervasive and broad influence of this new
set of ideas. What is surprising is that the origin of this revolution in
thought and practice derived from highly abstract and esoteric problems in
logic and mathematics (there needed to be a parallel development in
mechanical machinery, also, but nonetheless).
My guess is that the set of scientific preconceptions about the nature of
the fundamental "stuff" of the world we live in, labelled "materialism", is
gradually being replaced by a new set of preconceptions, which could be
called "computationalism", which performs a very similar job, but with new
content. This is almost certain to occur if it is shown that the laws of
computation are fundamental to even micro-scale physical laws, and constrain
them. For example, Stephen Wolfram's recent book, "A New Kind of Science",
which I also recommend, makes a very brave claim that universal computation
is fundamental even to physics. I think this kind of intellectual
risk-taking and boldness should be commended. (It is ok to be wrong, but it
is not ok to not hypothesise.) So empircally at least it appears there is an
emerging computational universalism.

The question I have been asking myself, and asking one or two people who
have knowledge of the ins and outs of dialectical materialism, such as
yourself, is: What is the relation between the theory of computation and the
theory of dialectical materialism?

One property they have in common -- although please correct me if I am
mistaken -- is, perhaps to use a pejorative label, "pan-logicism", the idea
that logical laws are somehow identical with physical laws. Although I tried
to read Hegel, and given up because it reads like nonsense to me, I do think
there is pan-logicism there, and I see an emerging pan-logicism in the
growing influence of computation in the sciences. Maybe it was in Turing
that being truly become conscious of itself, rather than Hegel. Only
questions, no answers.

Returning to your question. Godel showed that no single axiomatic system
could generate all the true statements of mathematics. Gregory Chaitin, who
has an alternative proof of Godel's Theorem that uses information theory,
interprets this to mean that purely deductive approaches are inherently
limited. But this doesn't stop us from employing induction to understand new
parts of mathematics, for example experimenting with new axiomatic starting
points. But Godel's result doesn't imply that formalism, by which I mean
theories with very precise semantics, should be abandoned. Formalism in that
sense is always a good thing, which is why I think that a theory of
dialectical logic, if there can be one, should aspire to formalism, rather
than remaining in the form of natural language statements, often with
unclear semantics. Please note that I said "aspire". I don't mean that all
natural language theorising is no good, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered
writing!

Your thoughts would be much appreciated on all this speculation.

ATB,

-Ian.

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jan 22 2004 - 00:00:01 EST