From: Gerald_A_Levy@MSN.COM
Date: Sat Dec 11 2004 - 09:34:28 EST
Paul B wrote: > I sometimes wonder quite what is meant by those talking of > the working class !!!! ( the 'full time', trade unionised or not, > industrial, etc employee of the imperial heartlands??? ) ---------------------------------------------------------- Paul B, Michael L, and others: Let's begin by seeing whether we can agree on what are some *false* criteria that have been used re the definition of the proletariat: * can we agree that one doesn't have to be a 'full-time' worker to be part of the working class? E.g. can we agree that part-time 'contingent' wage-workers are part of the working class? * can we agree that one doesn't have to be unionized to be part of the working class? * can we agree that one doesn't have to be employed in capitalist industry to be part of the working class? * can we agree that productive (of surplus-value) labor is not synonymous with the working class? Can we thus agree that both wage-workers who are productive of surplus-value and wage-workers who are employed by capital or the state and paid out of revenues are *equally* part of the working class? (The position that equates productive labor with the working class goes at least as far back as the 1970's, e.g. Boccara et al, and -- I was surprised to learn recently -- has an advocate today. This was one of many factors that muddied the waters in the 1970s debate on productive and unproductive labor, imo. I.e. there were some who fought hard to advance a different 'more inclusive' definition of productive labor _because_ they took productive labor to be the same as the working class. In some ways, though, the equation of productive labor with the working class is much _less_ inclusive since it would mean that anyone who is unproductive of surplus value and is employed by capital or the state is _excluded_ from the working class. This is an odd position for 'leftists' since it is a position which is effectively to the _right_ of that of Samuel Gompers and George Meany -- let alone the IWW!). In solidarity, Jerry
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