From: Dogan Goecmen (Dogangoecmen@AOL.COM)
Date: Wed Nov 29 2006 - 06:56:26 EST
Hi Gerry You say: On a macro level, production without human beings is science fiction; on the micro level, it is not. Already, in the early 1980s, there were flexible manufacturing systems (FMS) where robots and automated machinery produced robots. Indeed, these systems can be constructed in such a way that they are self-diagnostic. Since that time there have been significant advances in robotic vision, tactile ability, adaptive control, etc. systems -- and I haven't even mentioned yet the early generations of 'intelligent robots'. It is true that the "factory of the future" -- *universally applied* -- remains science fiction. But, I think it is possible to *envision* a system without human labor directly in the production process. Reply: I worked more than 10 years in different car and lorry factiories like BMW and MAN. I know from my experience that there could be sections in production process involving no actual human labour. But I think Ajit's claim was going much beyond this. He was sort of asking whether production as such could be thought of without any human labour. As far as I know this question is re-raised by people like Peter F. Drucker in the context of the Knowledge Based Economy. And I think this is impossible, because even in those sections of production involving no actual human labour is needed in one way or another. Human labour is involved by the fact that robost and all sorts of fully automated machines are products of human labour. On the other hand, what about maintanance, programming, re-programming, switching on and off, observation and so on for example? In the long-rung Marx did not deny the possibility that human beings can step aside the direct production and work just as observers of production process. But even as observers human beings are absolutely necessary for production. The question shouldn't be whether production in general is possible without human labor; the question would be whether such a system could be characterized as capitalist. I would say, no -- since wage labor is an essential aspect of capitalism. Without wage-labor there can be production (as there was in pre-capitalist modes of production) but not capitalism. Reply: But logically you cannot ask the second question without answering the first question affirmatively. I mean without implying that production without human labour is possible you cannot the pose the question how this system should be charcterised. This is pure speculation. I rather prefer to pose the question whether production is possible without capitalists. Warm regards Dogan
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