Re: [OPE-L] Please take me off the list-Re: [OPE-L] who's responding to whom

From: Paul Zarembka (zarembka@BUFFALO.EDU)
Date: Thu Dec 07 2006 - 13:42:04 EST


Ajit,

I've sort of mulled this over in the head.  Yes, follow your instincts.
Maybe at a future time you will feel more comfortable on the list.  I
almost left once for a different reason, so I can imagine how you might be
feeling.

Cheers, Paul Z.

**************************************************************************
THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF 9-11-2001   --"a benchmark in 9/11 research", review
Volume 23 (2006), RESEARCH IN POLITICAL ECONOMY, P. Zarembka, ed, Elsevier
*********************** http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, ajit sinha wrote:

> --- Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari@BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>
> > I know there have been many loud proclamations about
> > how my posts
> > should be sent to the junk box and pleas that I
> > should be ignored.
> > But we see a clear movement here from an incorrect
> > interpretation of
> > Marx's argument to a better one; and in that gap
> > there were my
> > putatively ignored posts challenging the flawed
> > original formulations.
> ______________________________
> Jerry, Please take me off the list. I do not know how
> to do this myself. I know I could send this mail
> privately to you. But I think it is other members
> right to know why I have left the list. I have been
> stocked and harassed by this individual named Rakesh
> Bhandari and after years of putting up with it, I
> recently made it public as I saw he had started to do
> the same to you. Now it is clear to me that this guy
> is preparing grounds to accuse me of plagiarism, as he
> has already done with others. As you know I'm writing
> a book, which is important to me and I cannot take
> chances. I used to think that the guy is just an idiot
> who simply does not understand arguments--as his
> evidence of myself correcting my position in the face
> of his criticisms or other postings will show to any
> one who is knowledgeable about classical political
> economy. But it is not just that. It is becoming clear
> to me that he is on some mission. He belongs to a
> group of people who are carrying out a vendetta
> against me and, as you know, putting up
> unsubstantiated allegations against me in public
> forums. I have a feeling that they also want to bring
> this list down--he is just a solder. I can see that he
> has not changed his behavior one bit after being
> allowed back on the list. Now, what the list does with
> him is not my problem. I simply cannot take it
> anymore, so I'm getting out. Now I'm on no electronic
> list--sometimes I'll miss it but at least one will not
> have to deal with Bhandaries of the cyber world, and
> that will be a relief. Thanks to others for some good
> discussions over the years. Cheers, ajit sinha
> ________________________________
> >
> > So let's look at this exchange:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Ajit wrote:
> > >
> > >>Now, the proposition
> > >>Marx is making is not that empirically profits and
> > >>surplus labor are observed to go together but
> > rather
> > >>the *cause* of profit lies in surplus labor. This
> > >>proposition is simply asserted but never proved by
> > >>Marx.
> > >
> > >
> > >Again this is not what Marx intended to do as any
> > reading of the
> > >first six chapters of
> > >Capital I should make clear. Marx *deduces* that
> > *cause*; he does not
> > >directly prove it or assert it!
> > >If value regulates price, then the difference in
> > the monetary
> > >expression of C' and C in the circuit of capital
> > (M-C-P-C'-M')  must
> > >have resulted the appropriation of unpaid labor
> > time.
> >
> >
> > Then Ajit later submitted this correction of his
> > view a few days later:
> > >  Before Marx no political economist had a good
> > >theory of profit (except for taking surplus as gift
> > of
> > >nature). It is Marx's great originality that he
> > tries
> > >to develop a proper theory of profit determination
> > (an
> > >originality for which Marx is not given proper
> > credit
> > >because of Marx influenced reading of Ricardo). Now
> > to
> > >do so, Marx first develops a so-called theory of
> > value
> > >where commodities are supposed to exchange
> > according
> > >to their labor content. From this proposition he
> > >derives a particular exchange relation of real
> > wages
> > >with labor-power and discovers the source of
> > surplus
> > >production in surplus labor. Then this surplus
> > labor
> > >so derived from the equal value exchange
> > proposition
> > >is used to develop the rate of profit.
> >
> > And even before this correction, I had already
> > submitted this
> > implicit challenge to Ajit's understanding of the
> > logic of Marx's
> > argument upon readmission to this list.
> >
> > >Please let us remember that Marx did not derive the
> > labor theory of
> > >value from his explanation of
> > >surplus value, defined as M'-M. In that sense
> > surplus value was
> > >recognized long before Marx; the question of course
> > is whether it was
> > >buried by neoclassical economics as Joan Robinson
> > complained often
> > >and vociferously.
> > >
> > >  Marx's explanation of the persistence of the
> > surplus value value
> > >presupposes the labor theory of value, for on that
> > basis--as well as
> > >Gil's favorite assumption of price value
> > equivalence--Marx reasons
> > >that capital considered here as a perfect aliquot
> > of the whole cannot
> > >have paid for labor time actually expended.
> > >
> > >What did it then purchase--the worker's ability to
> > perform labor...We
> > >all know the story...If the labor theory of value
> > is true, then that
> > >ability must have a lesser value than the value
> > added by expenditure
> > >of labor. And indeed input output analysis confirms
> > that as true--as
> > >even the critic Meghnad Desai himself underlines.
> > Of course that does
> > >not resolve the question of exploitation because
> > the wage could
> > >represent full payment for labor performed,
> > discounted in terms of
> > >labor's present time preference.  The problem here
> > is a fetishization
> > >of time which is of course better than its
> > elimination.
> >
>
>
>
>
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