From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Thu Feb 15 2007 - 16:07:47 EST
Ok, I may ask more questions when I have read further through the book.
Paul Cockshott
www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc
-----Original Message-----
From: OPE-L on behalf of B.R.Bapuji
Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 6:15 PM
To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Caste system- surplus woman question
I took a print out of your comments and read out to Ranganayakamma (hereafter RN).
She wanted me to draw your attention to the following paragraphs in the section 'How did Sati begin?'.
_______________________________
The second doubt: To the question 'why some castes do not observe customs like 'Sati', will it be sufficient answer if we say, "because those customs are cruel"? Some castes observe those 'cruel customs'. Why did those castes like that cruelty? Why did other castes not like that cruelty?
The third doubt: Ambedkar maintains that customs like 'Sati' came into practice because of the problem of surplus women. But the fact that there are castes which do not observe such customs imply that those castes are able to solve the problem of surplus women without such customs and continue to exist as castes, don't they? Does this not prove the fact that such customs did not arise for the problem of caste and there is no connection between such customs and continuity of caste?
Can we satisfy ourselves with any explanation unless we find an answer that does not give scope to any doubt to such an important question, namely, 'how did castes emerge?'
__________________________________
Bapuji
Paul Cockshott <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I have read through 'Marx on Caste' which you suggest, and started on 'Buddha is not Enough, Ambedkar is not enough either, Marx is a Must'. I am enjoying reading it. It is good knockabout stuff in its criticisms of Ambedkar which seem mostly fair. The one I am not sure about is her criticism of Ambedkars analysis of Sati.
He explained this as arising from the attempt by the Brahmins to mainatain endogamy. Widows, as surplus women, he claimed, would have endangered this by potentially marrying into other casts, there being no men of their own caste available to marry. Ranganayakamma replies 'what about the surplus men', could the widows not have married widowers?
I don't think this is an altogether valid criticism of Ambedkar since male life expectancy being less than female life expectancy, society tends to have more widows than widowers. One also has to take into account the statistical effect of living in small village communities. In such communities the likelihood of surplus men and surplus women balancing, even with equal life expectancies would be rare. Some communities would have more Brahmin widowers some would have more widows. But even if we grant that Ambedkar had identified a real problem for the upper castes, Sati would not have been the only institution that could have been arrived at to maintain endogamy: tolerance of polygamy and polyandry would also deal with the occurrences of surpluses of men or women of a particular cast.
---------------------------------
From: OPE-L [mailto:OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU] On Behalf Of B.R.Bapuji
Sent: 14 February 2007 15:11
To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Caste system
Comrade Jerry,
May I suggest two more references relating to 'Caste question'?
One is a book and another an article. Both are by Ranganayakamma and I did the translation (into Indian English).
Title of the book:
FOR THE SOLUTION OF THE 'CASTE' QUESTION, BUDDHA IS NOT ENOUGH, AMBEDKAR IS NOT ENOUGH EITHER, MARX IS A MUST! This is an English translation of Ranganayakamma's Telugu book which underwent five editions so far and is ready to go for sixth print since 2000. [The English version is in paper back, pages 421, price:$10. postage free.]
Title of the article:
MARX ON CASTE. This is also a translation of a Telugu article which Ranganayakamma wrote and appended to the Telugu version of her book. The English version of the article is available in the website www.ranganayakamma.org
You have to look under 'Articles'.
This is for information of those who might be interested in the caste question.
Bapuji
glevy@PRATT.EDU wrote:
Paul C:
The above is a links page for sources on caste, including struggles
against caste, in India and elsewhere. Includes both Marxian and
non-Marxian sources.
In solidarity, Jerry
B.R.Bapuji, Professor,
Centre for Applied Linguistics & Translation Studies,
University of Hyderabad, Central University post office,
HYDERABAD-500 046. (Phone:91-40-23133650 or 23010161).
Residence address:
76, Lake-side Colony, [End of Road opposite to Madapur Police Station],Jubilee Hills post, Hyderabad-500033.
(Phone: 91-40-23117302)
---------------------------------
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B.R.Bapuji, Professor,
Centre for Applied Linguistics & Translation Studies,
University of Hyderabad, Central University post office,
HYDERABAD-500 046. (Phone:91-40-23133650 or 23010161).
Residence address:
76, Lake-side Colony, [End of Road opposite to Madapur Police Station],Jubilee Hills post, Hyderabad-500033.
(Phone: 91-40-23117302)
---------------------------------
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