Re: [OPE-L] questions on the interpretation of labour values

From: Paul Cockshott (clyder@GN.APC.ORG)
Date: Sun Apr 08 2007 - 11:28:27 EDT


Rakesh  wrote:

Quoting Karl :
 >The theoretical conception concerning the first transformation of
surplus-value into profit, that >every part of a capital yields a
uniform profit, expresses a practical fact. Whatever the >composition of
an industrial capital, whether it sets in motion one quarter of
congealed labour and >three-quarters of living labour, or three-quarters
of congealed labour and one-quarter of living >labour, whether in one
case it absorbs three times as much surplus-labour, or produces three
 >times as much surplus-value than in another - in either case it yields
the same profit,


Paul
Karl is wrong here, there is a systematic inverse correlation
between the rate of profit and the organic composition of capital.

see fig 1 of the attached.




>> Quoting Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari@BERKELEY.EDU>:
>>> 2. Given Marx's emphasis on regular changes in prices of production, he
>>> would not have thought that the prices of production which governed the
>>> prices of the inputs could have been the same as the prices of
>>> production
>>> which he derives for the outputs. So even if one thinks Marx left the
>>> inputs in the form of values or simple prices, there is no evidence that
>>> he was calling for a vector of equilibrium prices in the specific
>>> sense of
>>> same prices for the inputs and outputs. Indeed the chapter as a whole
>>> indicates that Marx would have rejected the equilibrium idea that prices
>>> of production do not change interperiodically. To judge Marx on the
>>> neoclassical equilibrium terrain is to impose foreign standards on him,
>>> not to judge him on his own terms. Marx cannot be said to have
>>> called for
>>> the neoclassical equilibrium test which he then fails. But that is
>>> how it
>>> is presented in almost every account of Marxian economics. Take Heinz
>>> Kurz's entry on value in The Radical Political Economy entry, ed. by
>>> Malcolm Saywer as just one of countless examples. Some radical political
>>> economy! Though that point of view is vociferously defended on this
>>> list;
>>> unfortunately I have been disallowed with the AC's approval from
>>> replying
>>> directly.
>>
>> Hi Rakesh,
>>
>> Which passages in particular in Chapter 9 do you think indicate that
>> Marx was assuming continuous changes in values in each industry, period
>> after period?
>>
>> It seems to me that in these few pages at the end of Chapter 9 Marx is
>> making the theoretical point that, even though prices of production are
>> not proportional to values, prices of production are nonetheless
>> ultimately determined by values, and that changes in prices of
>> production are ultimately caused by changes in values, either in the
>> given industry or in industries that produce means of production for
>> this industry.  I don't see any suggestion that he is assuming that
>> such changes of values happen continuously, period after period, in
>> each industry.
>
> Right but Marx emphasizes here that prices of production do not always
> change in the long term.
>
>
> But let me take the undisputed point first. The fact that the average
> rate of profit only changes in the long term actively misleads
> capitalists as to what the consequences of  productivity growth are in
> those branches undergoing at any time the most explosive growth. In
> other words, the type of thought typical of active capitalists does
> not allow them to penetrate beyond the appearances to the essences of
> modern society, for a grasp of the whole is the condition of
> knowledge, and this is simply incompatible with rationality in the
> form of rationalization concerned only with the maximization of
> profits (I draw here from Rockmore's summary of Lukacs).
>
> So here is a crucial paragraph from this ninth chapter in terms of
> Marx's holistic epistemology, i.e. the idea that a grasp of the whole
> is the condition of knowledge and that capitalists are constitutively
> incapable of such grasp though the kind of rationality  we have is
> shaped by their narrow interests:
>
> The theoretical conception concerning the first transformation of
> surplus-value into profit, that every part of a capital yields a
> uniform profit, expresses a practical fact. Whatever the composition
> of an industrial capital, whether it sets in motion one quarter of
> congealed labour and three-quarters of living labour, or
> three-quarters of congealed labour and one-quarter of living labour,
> whether in one case it absorbs three times as much surplus-labour, or
> produces three times as much surplus-value than in another - in either
> case it yields the same profit, given the same degree of labour
> exploitation and leaving aside individual differences, which,
> incidentally, disappear because we are dealing in both cases with the
> average composition of the entire sphere of production. The individual
> capitalist (or all the capitalists in each individual sphere of
> production), whose outlook is limited, rightly believes that his
> profit is not derived solely from the labour employed by him, or in
> his line of production. This is quite true, as far as his average
> profit is concerned. To what extent this profit is due to the
> aggregate exploitation of labour on the part of the total social
> capital, i. e., by all his capitalist colleagues - this interrelation
> is a complete mystery to the individual capitalist; all the more so,
> since no bourgeois theorists, the political economists, have so far
> revealed it. A saving of labour - not only labour necessary to produce
> a certain product, but also the number of employed labourers - and the
> employment of more congealed labour (constant capital), appear to be
> very sound operations from the economic standpoint and do not seem to
> exert the least influence on the general rate of profit and the
> average profit. How could living labour be the sole source of profit,
> in view of the fact that a reduction in the quantity of labour
> required for production appears not to exert any influence on profit?
> Moreover, it even seems in certain circumstances to be the nearest
> source of an increase of profits, at least for the individual capitalist.
>
>  The philosophical significance of this chapter is rather
> breath-taking once one understands Marx's views of  holistic
> epistemology (and the implicit critique of the capitalist perversion
> of rationality) and  real contradiction (the contradiction between the
> law of value and the equalization of the profit rate as a real
> contradiction of generalized commodity capitalist production, a real
> contradiction between social production and private profit resulting
> in the mediation of the price of production which raises the class
> struggle to a social level).
>
> Most of the readings we have of the transformation problem are quite
> flat footed as if the problem were well understood as as a problem of
> algebra.
>
> Now to where we disagree.
>
>
> In terms less than required for depressions in the average rate of
> profit to register,  we should assume that the change in pop was
> occasioned not by a change in the general rate of profit but by a
> change in the value of the commodity itself, and since the value of
> the commodity can change in consequence of technical changes within
> its own sphere as well as in consequence of a change in the value of
> those commodities which form the elements of its constant capital,
> unit values will likely tend to change before, say, the means of
> production have been amortized or scrapped. That is, for the prices of
> production to change, there need not be ceaseless productivity growth
> in its own branch but only in one of the branches producing its means
> of production. This makes it likely that reductions in unit value are
> quite frequent.
>
> Moreover, when, how often and as a result of what do you think prices
> of production change?
>
> Importantly, RIcardo himself thought that unit values were changing
> very regularly as I have shown and Ricardo of course had not yet
> assimilated the consequences of large scale industry.
>
> Rakesh
>
> ps sorry not to have replied to Dogan's question about my own query
> about Althusser's critique of Hegel. I of course had the essays in For
> Marx in mind, but there are other important essays as well. And it
> will take me time.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Comradely,
>> Fred
>>
>>
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