Re: [OPE-L] Complex ... and the French edition of capital

From: Ian Hunt (ian.hunt@FLINDERS.EDU.AU)
Date: Tue Jun 12 2007 - 23:43:30 EDT


Dear Howard,
I infer from this, if I have understood your suggestion, that the sum
in hours of labour of the proportions of the aggregate representing
different labours, you will get a larger number of hours than the
aggregate hours worked. This is a problem to me,
Cheers,
Ian

>Hi Ian,
>
>I don't think so.  You start with concrete labor.  That's all there is.  You
>take the products of these separate concrete activities to market.  Each
>will represent a portion of the aggregate.  Skilled labor of 2 hours, since
>it is more intense than the average, will represent 8 hours of the
>aggregate.  And 9 hours of particularly unskilled labor may count for only 3
>hours of the aggregate.  So now the 2 and 9 hours of concrete labor have
>been objectified in products that represent 8 and 3 hours of abstract labor.
>But all you have is one mass of labor of which different products represent
>proportions.  The aggregate equals the aggregate.  There's nothing else that
>figures in.
>
>Howard
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ian Hunt" <ian.hunt@FLINDERS.EDU.AU>
>To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:25 PM
>Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Complex ... and the French edition of capital
>
>
>>  I think it must be a bit more complicated than that. We might equate
>>  the total hours of abstract labour with the total hours of concrete
>>  labour, but when it comes to socially necessary abstract labour,
>>  which is what money expresses, if 8 hours of concrete skilled hours
>>  is four times as productive as 8  unskilled hours of the same kind of
>>  work, then the 8 hours of unskilled work will equal 2 hours of
>>  socially necessary abstract labour if the skilled work equals 8 hours
>>  of socially necessary abstract labour.
>>  A better way of determining the total amount of abstract labour in
>>  hours would be to take each kind of concrete labour-ie, labour
>>  producing a specific use value-and find the total of hours of work
>>  equal to the most productive hours worked (which is one conception of
>>  socially necessary abstract labour) or the total number of hours
>>  equal to the productivity of the work that earns the average return
>>  (another conception of socially necessary abstract labour as the
>>  labour of the market price setting technique of production).
>>
>>  >By adding up the hours of work done, you'd be abstacting from other human
>>  >activities, etc., but you would not be abstracting from the activity of
>>  >labor.  You would be counting hours of concrete labor.  Still, I agree
>with
>>  >your proposition because the totality of concrete labor is all there is
>to
>>  >constitute abstract labor.  Total concrete labor necessarily equals total
>>  >abstract labor.
>>  >
>>  >Howard
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >----- Original Message -----
>>  >From: "Paul Cockshott" <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK>
>>  >To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
>>  >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:12 PM
>>  >Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Complex ... and the French edition of capital
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >Michael
>>  >-------
>>  >
>>  >You could do that, but then you would be ignoring abstraction altogether.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 12:05:04AM +0100, Paul Cockshott wrote:
>>  >>   Michael P
>>  >>
>>  >>  What I meant was that it is hopeless to think that anyone could
>>  >>  quantify the amount of abstract labor in an economy.
>>  >>  ------------
>>  >>  Paul C
>>  >>
>>  >>  Why not just add up the number of people who work then multiply by
>>  >>  the fraction of the year that they each work?
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >On the contrary I would be using abstraction, since I would by
>>  >adding up all the hours of work done, be abstracting from the concrete
>>  >form in which the work was done, and counting it only as human labour
>>  >in general --- in the abstract.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >--
>>  >Michael Perelman
>>  >Economics Department
>>  >California State University
>>  >Chico, CA 95929
>>  >
>>  >Tel. 530-898-5321
>>  >E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
>>  >michaelperelman.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
>>  Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
>  > Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
>>  Flinders University of SA,
>>  Humanities Building,
>>  Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
>>  Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784


--
Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
Flinders University of SA,
Humanities Building,
Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784


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