RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

Iraq had economic motives. Palestine I am much more dubious of.

 I think the support for Jewish settler colonialism there owes more to internal US politics.
The us could equally well have chosen to support the Arab states against Isreal at much lower economic cost were it not for the votes that would have been lost within the USA. The Afghan campaign is derivative from the support for settler colonialism in Palestine, since it was that choice that turned so much of Islamic opinion against the US.
________________________________________
From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu [ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Bullock [paulbullock@ebms-ltd.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:54 PM
To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list
Subject: Re: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

If Paul C thinks that the imperialist action from Palestine to Afghanistan ( to limit the point ) have no basis in economic motives, then I wonder what sort of Marxist he may consider himself to be?

By the way the sort of evidence for economic motivation in this link is well known

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html

Paul B
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Göçmen<mailto:dogangoecmen@aol.com>
To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

Paul:

The suggestion that the US intervention in Afghanistan is for economic motives

of capital export is total joke.

Dogan:
so, then, the whole US administration must be joking and all imperialist countries involved and competing against one another in the region must playing a children's game. Remember, just before the change of Bush administration we stood very close to a war in the region and comentators said it was a conflict that brought us very close to war between great powers.

D.Göçmen
http://dogangocmen.wordpress.com/
http://www.dogangocmen.blogspot.com/

-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk>
An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu>
Verschickt: Mi., 30. Dez. 2009, 0:36
Thema: RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

The social relation was exported no question about that, but my point was to

critique the idea that the export of capital was a way of absorbing excess

surplus value. It would be more realistic to see late 19th century imperialism

as relating to the export of labour. Recall the demographic profile of Germany

and the UK as population surplus areas. Canada, Australia and South Africa were

sites for exporting surplus population. William, left with the deserts of the

Kalahari, the swamps of the Ovango coveted areas more suitable for white

settlement -- hence the ambitions for colonisation in South America, from which

followed the need to challenge the Monroe doctrine, and fromwhich followed the

contingency plans to invade the USA to enforce claims to Venezuela.

It is worth reading the tin. IN 1900 the leading states were all quite open

about being empires with territorial claims. The situation today is totally

different.

The suggestion that the US intervention in Afghanistan is for economic motives

of capital export is total joke. The only capitalist power exporting capital on

any scale to Afghanistan is China not the USA. Who is developing the mineral

reserves, copper mines there -- China, not the USA.

USA only invaded Afghanistan after 9/11 as a cack handed attempt to strike back

at those who attacked it.

Iraq is a rather different matter, here supplies of credit from the Saudis was

probably the motivating factor, but that does not fit in to the old analysis of

imperialism either.

I feel DY is attempting to apply to the 21st century an analysis that was at

best a partial fit to the early 20th.

________________________________________

From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu> [ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu<mailto:ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu>] On Behalf

Of GERALD LEVY [gerald_a_levy@msn.com<mailto:gerald_a_levy@msn.com>]

Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:45 PM

To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list

Subject: RE: [OPE] Britain--parasitic and decaying capitalism: A comment

> How real then is the idea of capital export as underlying even late

> 19th century imperialism.

Hi Paul C:

If you think of the export of capital as an export and expansion of a social

relation (most especially, the class relation between capitalists and

wage-workers) then it's quite real (but not without its contradictory aspects).

In solidarity, Jerry _______________________________________________

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Received on Wed Dec 30 19:30:19 2009