Beautiful quote from Clavius in your OPE-L 4896, Alan: "But in fact many absurdities and errors are contained in the Copernican position – as that the earth is not at the centre of the firmament and is moved by a threefold motion (which I can hardly understand, because according to philosophers one simple body ought to have one motion) and moreover that the sun stands at the centre of the world and lacks any motion. All of which conflicts with the common teaching of philosophers and astronomers and also seem to contradict what the Scriptures teach." (From Clavius’ commentary on Sacrobosco’s Sphaera, cited in Lattis (1994:249)) Sounds just like some of our friends. Of course, I also love the quote from Kuhn about the Ptolemaists having "defined" the earth as having a fixed position (just like physicalists/simultaneists "define" the profit rate on the basis of fixed prices), but I knew that one already. What you say about suppression and the struggle against it is very good. Forceful and profound. Bravo! The critique of Fred's non-response to your demonstration is also dead-on right. Any thoughts as to what I should talk about? Andrew Kliman
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