Re Nicky, Geert and Jerry's recent posts: 1) At one point Geert stresses the importance of his disagreement with Fred's theory of surplus value, it's development through Vols 1 to 3 of Capital. I certainly agree with Geert that such specific points of disagreement are far more important than any abstract methodolgical criteria....indeed Lakatos's stipulation of the criterion of being relatively 'progressive' stems precisely from his view that 'hard core' assertions are 'metaphysical' hence 'untestable'. It is a short step to Fererabend's 'anything goes' from here. 2) Thanks to Geert for correcting my interpretation of Y=mL. I had a look at Geert's 1993 chapter in the collection edited by Fred. Geert, I think I get it now. Still, it does seem that the notation 'mL' can be misleading. This is because the notation suggests that there are two variables (m and L) in a multiplicative relation. Whereas, if I understand you correctly, there is only one variable (mL...or better, ml) having the single dimension of money. (Where *money* is the only measure of actual and capitalist abstract *labour*!). Have I got this wrong? 3) Let me restate the quantitative 'problem' with value form theory. The problem is that the *magnitude* of 'value' is taken by VFT to be a magnitude of money (with the relation to abstract labour indicated above). Nowhere in VFT is this magnitude, whether for surplus value, wages, rent, profit or interest, or for more concrete prices, given any explanation. The meaning of 'explanation' is entirely clear in this case. It simply means an answer to the question, 'why are profits this magnitude, rather than another magnitude?' or 'why is surplus value not higher / lower?' Nicky, I don't think that this point need have anything to do with an adherence to analytical philosophy. 4) Imo, Nicky is on far stronger ground in criticising the cogency of the notion of socially necessary abstract labour time, at least as a putative 'explainer' of value magnitude. On this, two things: firstly it is a transhistorical law of society that labour is distrubuted in definite proportions across society. In stating this law, the referent of the term 'labour' must be, in full, socially necessary abstract labour! Note that, on my view, the peculiarity of the CMP is that abstract labour becomes a substance, it gains psuedo- independence from concrete labour. In other words, it is the pseudo *separate* existence of abstract labour that distinguishes the CMP; not the mere existence of abstract labour. Secondly, there is an assumption running through the (R/W) VFT critique of 'abstract labour embodied' theories which I should like to contest. This assumption runs as follows: because price and congealed labour are mutually dependent upon one another, it follows that labour time does not tether price magnitude. Rather, at best, labour time and price magnitude co-determine one another (they are, at best, 'on a par'). Not so, I think. Value (congealed abstract labour) requires a bodily form in order to exist, so value and price are indeed mutually dependent on one another. Yet, because price is the appearance form of value [I like Howard's stress on the distinction between 'form' and '*appearance* form'] price magnitude is tethered by abstract labour time magnitude. More generally, it is true that the CMP is an internally related totality AND it is true that labour time tethers price magnitude. Note that point 4 clarifies my ambiguous previous post Y=mL. That post should have made clear the distinction between qualitative mutual determination (which I accept) and quantitative mutual determination (which I reject). Many thanks, Andy
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