Hi Riccardo, Thank you for the following comment on the nature of 'flames', which I interpreted in the exactly the same manner as you did: > (ii) may be it is a problem of language and culture, but translated >in Italian, a parenthetical like "even Nicky who seems to be Jerry's >good friend etc.", implying that an argument by Nicky in favour of >Jerry should be due to the fact that she must be "a good friend" of >him, would be judged as a flame. Since my name keeps coming up (why?), I'd like to use this opportunity to clarify 4 things further: 1) My support for Jerry was limited to the specific instance where he commented on the hermeneutic character of Kliman's work. What I supported (in 2 sentences) was Jerry's right to state an opinion. Moreover, I deliberately bracketed my support for Jerry's right to have an opinion with a clear refusal to make any comment on whether that opinion is 'right' or 'wrong'. 2) I have nowhere, at any time on this list, supported Jerry's decision to make Alan's private email available to others. In the one comment that I did make online (at the time of the incident) I said the exact opposite. I have never requested Alan's email. I have never seen it. I do not want to see it. I do not wish to comment on it. I do not want it imposed on me. I am dismayed by the whole business. End of story. 3) I have no problem whatsoever with Rakesh expressing his own (legitimate) concerns on the above. I do have a problem with the manner in which he expresses them (personalised references to Jerry's ethics and heart problem etc). Imo, this is not a 'legitimate' way to express a legitimate concern and tends, moreover, to alienate people (note Mike W's departing comment). 4) I also have a problem with the way in which Rakesh attributes to me and others - see the example below - opinions and/or positions that I do not hold, and have never held or expressed. I have no intention of *ever* responding to *any* challenge framed in this arbitrary fashion, for the same reason as in 3). Comradely Nicky At 12:35 -0700 18-05-2002, Rakesh Bhandari wrote: >>Dear Rakesh, >> >> >> thanks for your further elaboration. I accept that on this >>thing we have different opinion. That's it. >> >> The problem here is not to agree 100% with Jerry. I think his >>parallel with gardening was a slip (in fact, he admitted it). I >>think he over-emphasised the point about hermeneutics, opposing it >>to understanding real capitalism. Though, I thin k he raised an >>interesting point to be elaborated, how different are the ways of >>doing Marxian hermeneutics today, and how this hermeneutics is >>linked to a process of understanding and changing the word. > >Dear Riccardo, >all these questions can be raised without saying that real Marxists >who are primarily interested in understanding and struggling against >real world capitalism have great difficulty communicating with >Kliman because Kliman has a primary research interest with the same >relevance to Marxism as personal gardening. > >First, this is a flame. You want to call it a slip, but this is a >euphemism. Jerry needs to re-read the list rules. And I don't think >we should have a moderator who breaks his own rules. > >Second, it puts all the blame on Kliman for these communicational >difficulties. Why does this list need a hypothesis of why Kliman has >communicational difficulties? Especially a hypothesis which puts >Kliman in a very unfavorable comparison with his old interlocutors?! >Kliman is not even on the list. Levy's comments on Kliman were >neither polite nor productive. > > The list does not need a moderator like this. Sinha, Skillman and >others (perhaps you and me as well) have blame to share in the >breakdown of conversation with the TSS school; I of course make no >excuses for Kliman's obnoxious demands for retraction--one must >realize that I have had as much unpleasant email exchange with >Kliman as almost anyone on this list. But I don't think Levy's >making available of Freeman's private email (even if Freeman allowed >this) did anyone any good--even Nicky who seems to be Jerry's good >friend could find no reason for Jerry to circulate Freeman's private >email with the absurd cries that he was exposing a THREAT to the >list. What a TSS person could think is that the moderator of this >list is willing to do anything to bring them down--circulate private >email and make ad hominem criticisms. Again we don't need this kind >of moderation. > >Levy has moderated for--what?--seven years now. Do Marxists have >moderators for life? It's time for a change. > >Rakesh -- Riccardo Bellofiore Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche Via dei Caniana 2 I-24127 Bergamo, Italy e-mail: bellofio@unibg.it, bellofio@cisi.unito.it direct +39-035-277545 secretary +39-035 277501 fax: +39 035 277549 homepage: http://www.unibg.it/dse/homebellofiore.htm
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