From: Riccardo Bellofiore (riccardo.bellofiore@UNIBG.IT)
Date: Tue Jun 01 2004 - 13:08:22 EDT
About the MEL, I am satisfied with Foley. My problem with the so-called NI is not with that magnitude, but with the "postulate" (I provide an argument instead, based on my reading of Volume I and my version of Marx's comparison between a situation where living labour is necessary labour, and the lengthening of the former), with it being only ex-post, and with a monetary view bordering on the loanable fund appproach. But on accounting I agree 100%. About abstract labour, of course it is in time (provided the ante-validation, and the ex-post confirmation of demand). The time accounting strictly depends on the monetary validation(s). But it is in time. Hours of the same intensity, if you wish. However, frankly, I do not think this has anything to do either with operational accounting or with calculation in the usual meaning. How many hours?In the aggregate, of course, they depend on the wage and on the techniques. In my view, the basic model is with the real wage of the working class as given by the capitalistv decisions (if you wish, aggregate autonomous investment and capitalist consumption by capitalists), say the subsistence set by class struggle; the conflictual extraction of living labour, and the output sold. We may calculate the embodied abstract labour time in necessary labour and the embodied total labour time spent The point is that here we take as given exactly the three (no: four or five) things that are fluid in Marx reasoning: 1. the real wage 2. the length of the surplus labour time 3. demand I should add intensity and absolute length of labour time. Once we do this, and we go to the calculation, all the discussion about labour exploitation vanishes, because as we know you can determinen prices etc. without any recourse to labour. But to read things in this way would be to remain at Ricardo before Marx (see the criticism of Marx versus Ricardo in TSV). The LTV is essential in the constitution of what is given in Sraffa: methods of production (then, indirectly, in price theory too). May be he (PS) almost get there. rb ps: I disappear for some days (conference of historians of economic thought). At 5:03 -0700 1-06-2004, ajit sinha wrote: >--- Riccardo Bellofiore <riccardo.bellofiore@UNIBG.IT> >wrote: >> At 3:21 -0700 1-06-2004, ajit sinha wrote: >> >> >______________________ >> >How do you measure labor in terms of $? The unit of >> >labor is time. So we need to know how is labor >> >measured in terms of time. >> >> You have money wages, employment, expected >> extraction of living >> labour, expected money sales. If expectaction are >> fulfilled both in >> the capitalist labour process and on the commodity >> market, I guess we >> have abstract (living) labour time which will be >> confirmed by the >> market. >___________________ >So will that "abstract (living) labour" be in terms of >hours? And after the market has confirmed, how do we >know how many hours are they? >______________________ >> >> >> > >> >Can you tell me what mLL and mPP stand for? Cheers, >> >ajit sinha >> >> LL living labour >> m monetary expression of labour time >> MP means of production >> p prices of MP >____________________ >How do you get " monetary expression of labour time"? >Cheers, ajit sinha >> >> riccardo >> -- >> >> Riccardo Bellofiore >> Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche >> "Hyman P. Minsky" >> Universitý di Bergamo >> Via dei Caniana 2 >> I-24127 Bergamo, Italy >> e-mail: riccardo.bellofiore@unibg.it >> direct +39-035-2052545 >> secretary +39-035 2052501 >> fax: +39 035 2052549 >> homepage: >http://wwwesterni.unibg.it/dse/homepage/bellofiore.htm > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Riccardo Bellofiore Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche "Hyman P. Minsky" Universitŕ di Bergamo Via dei Caniana 2 I-24127 Bergamo, Italy e-mail: riccardo.bellofiore@unibg.it direct +39-035-2052545 secretary +39-035 2052501 fax: +39 035 2052549 homepage: http://wwwesterni.unibg.it/dse/homepage/bellofiore.htm
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jun 03 2004 - 00:00:01 EDT