Re: [OPE-L] Chavez and Trotsky

From: Paul Bullock (paulbullock@EBMS-LTD.CO.UK)
Date: Sun Dec 12 2004 - 17:33:31 EST


I should like to add to my hurried note , that many  'common criminal'
prisoners develop a clear class consciousness in prison itself, and there is
nothing  'fixed' implied in my previous comment.

paul B.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bullock" <paulbullock@EBMS-LTD.CO.UK>
To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Chavez and Trotsky


> Gerry, I am sure you understood that I was speaking of landless labour -
the
> 'informal' sector - your remark re poor peasants  seems to me pointless in
> the context. In any case poor peasants have been   leaving the land by the
> millions globally every month  for many years, forced into a position of
> jobless workers.
>
> Of course prisoners are, on the whole, of the working class. The
> specifically extortionate exploitation that they are forced to endure in
> prison work regimes simply underlines the fact. As for small time drug
> dealers then here we have another example of the absolutely crushing moral
> and physical effect that imperialism has upon a section of the working
> class. Each of the categories you choose live generally by turning upon
> other workers, immitating the worst petty bourgeoise prejudices, rather
than
> organising against their condition. They have no 'class consciousness' in
> revolutionary sense. All have a common real enemy.
>
> Paul B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Gerald_A_Levy@MSN.COM>
> To: <OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 4:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Chavez and Trotsky
>
>
> > >  <snip>  does not  obscure the fact that they have to work in
> > > some way to  avoid starvation.
> >
> > Paul B,
> >
> > Poor peasants also have to work in order to survive. Does
> > this mean that they are no longer part of the peasantry and
> > are now part of the working class?
> >
> > In many countries prisoners are also required to work for
> > their food and 'housing'.  Are they therefore ipso facto part
> > of the working class?
> >
> > Small-time drug dealers also have to work (i.e. sell drugs)
> > in order to survive.  Are they now part of the working class?
> >
> > Etc. Etc.
> >
> > Michael  L,
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > In Venezuela, where about 1.5 of the 14 million (over half
> > > of whom are in the informal sector) are organized, do we
> > > mean basically the oil, steel and aluminum proletariat?
> >
> > No.  Whether workers are organized or not does not
> > determine which class they are members of. Unorganized
> > wage-workers are just as much a part of the working class
> > as organized wage-workers.
> >
> > In solidarity, Jerry
> >
> >
>


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