From: Christopher Arthur (arthurcj@WAITROSE.COM)
Date: Fri Sep 30 2005 - 09:08:08 EDT
Jerry
The Scots are sesitive on matters of terminology in ways I forget (Scotch
whiskey but the Scottish people) but for sure they are 'Scots' not
descendants of Walter Scott
Chris
>> I think it is in Theories of Surplus Value, when critizicing Smith because
>> of his conception of the productive labour that did not include productive
>> labour performed outside the material (sensually tangible) production.
>
>Diego:
>
>The reference I believe you are thinking of is from _TSV_, Volume 1,
>Ch. 4 ("Theories of Productive and Unproductive Labour"), Section 4
>("Adam Smith's Second Explanation: the View of Productive Labour as
>Labour Which is Realised in a Commodity"). See ||313|, about a page
>before ||314|
>
> "The materialisation, etc., of labour is however not to be taken
> in such a Scottish sense as Adam Smith conceives it. When we
> speak of the commodity as a materialisation of labour -- in the
> sense of its exchange-value -- this itself is only an imaginary,
> that is to say, a purely social mode of existence of the
> commodity which has nothing to do with its corporeal reality;
> it is conceived as a definite quantity of social labour or of
> money." (Progress ed. -- Emile Burns translation -- p. 171).
>
>To begin with, Marx -- at least in the above translation -- didn't use
>the expression "too Scottish." (but, I didn't check the _Collected Works_
>translation or the German original for comparison).
>
>When he refers to "such a Scottish sense" it sounds to me, put within
>the context of the above passage and Marx's time, that KM was
>basically saying that Smith conceived of the materialisation of labour
>in such a Scottish Enlightenment sense, e.g. in a sense that might have
>been used by David Hume, who of course was a contemporary and
>friend of Smith.
>
>[It seems to me that this has a _very_ different meaning today -- and
>for a long time historically -- than the expression "too Scottish."
>"Too Scottish" is today a pejorative and a nationalist slur against
>Scotts. The stereotypes against Scotts -- which I won't repeat -- are
>similar to many of the stereotypes against Jews. Even in Marx's time,
>Scottish workers (and Scottish immigrants to the US) suffered from a
>culture of "Scottish jokes" and the stereotypes that were created
>(by English national chauvinists?) served as a pretext and ideological
>rationalization for discrimination. Of course, many other nationalities
>were also negatively stereotyped -- e.g. consider the whole flood of
>"Irish jokes" that continue to be spread in many places of the world
>today. It is certainly an expression that progressives should avoid --
>even had Marx used it.]
>
>*In any event*, I think I now grasp why you called attention to
>part of Marx's critique of Smith in the context of your exchange
>with Paul C. In the passage above, Marx seems to be arguing that
>the materialization of labor in a commodity should not be taken
>too literally and "corporeally." Thus, your criticism of the tables
>constructed by Paul C in which there were natural units (physical
>quantities) such as "kilograms per annum say for iron and coal".
>
>Do you and others think the above passage has any implications for
>how we interpret passages which refer to "crystallized" and
>"congealed" labor time? Doesn't it suggest that these expressions
>do not refer to "corporeal reality" but rather concern a "social
>mode of existence of the commodity"? In that sense, these terms
>should not be taken too literally and are rather metaphors for
>a social relation.
>
>Note also in the quote above that a commodity is "conceived
>as a definite quantity of social labour or of money." Isn't Marx
>saying here that the quantitative value of a commodity can be
>expressed as so much labour time _or_ as so such money?
>Should Marx have written _and_ instead of _or_? In this passage
>isn't there clearly a link between the commodity, money and labor
>time -- which is a very different understanding than that of Sraffa.
>
>In solidarity, Jerry
17 Bristol Road, Brighton, BN2 1AP, England
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