Re: [OPE-L] Quesnay

From: ajit sinha (sinha_a99@YAHOO.COM)
Date: Tue Sep 12 2006 - 09:28:44 EDT


For once, I agree with you Rakesh. ajit sinha

--- Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari@BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:

> >Jerry, the point I made was in a particular
> context.
> >The context was the possible influence of the
> >Physiocracy on Marx's theoretical framework in
> >CAPITAL. Now the most original contribution of the
> >Physiocrats (particularly Quesnay) was the notion
> of
> >'surplus'.
>
> Yes indeed the importance of the French Confucius.
>
> Equally important as surplus is reproduction, the
> theorization of
> production and circulation as constrained by the
> need to produce
> again, no? As John Torrance shows (Marx's Theory of
> Ideas), the idea
> of self constraining production as ontologically
> fundamental can be
> found in the early Marx but his early ideas are
> vague. And no where
> near as analytically breathtaking as the
> Physiocratic theory with its
> political implications of wu-wei.
>
> As a student of Sraffa, wouldn't you consider the
> discoveries of
> surplus and reproduction equally important?
>
> It's also only with the reproduction schema that
> Marx shows that his
> science is possible because it does indeed have an
> actual object
> capable of  reproduction through time, the
> capitalist mode of
> production. Otherwise there would be no object with
> enough integrity
> and coherence of which to theorize the laws of
> motion! In this sense
> the second volume of Capital is scientifically
> fundamental, the
> bedrock of the entire theoretical venture. And it is
> also of course
> the least studied volume.
>
> rb
>
>
>
> >  It is also contended by many that the whole
> >of political economy, including Marx's can be
> >understood as a 'surplus approach economics'. Now,
> in
> >that particular context, where the core of the
> theory
> >revolves around the concept of 'surplus', it is a
> >pertinent question to ask: what is surplus? Now you
> >can legitimately ask all sorts of different
> questions
> >such: as what is capitalism? or how all kinds of
> >things relate to it. But I'm not interested in
> getting
> >into such questions, definetely not on ope-l. I
> give
> >little bit of my time to ope-l and that's all I can
> >do. You need to sharpen your questions or put
> >alternative point of view within the context of a
> >debate, which can be responded to. I'm definitely
> not
> >interested in writing books on this list.
> >
> >(By the way, both Rakesh and Howard have
> misunderstood
> >what I meant by 'point of view'. An agent can
> perceve
> >something to be a 'surplus' if s/he has command
> over
> >it and can utilise it in whatever manner s/he deems
> >fit.) Cheers, ajit sinha
> >
> >--- Jerry Levy <Gerald_A_Levy@MSN.COM> wrote:
> >
> >>  >  Now I'm not interested in Marxological debate
> >>  > on this question. But I think a more
> interesting
> >>  > question from theoretical perspective would be
> to
> >>  > ask: what is surplus?
> >>
> >>  Hi Ajit:
> >>
> >>  If we, as you suggest, put aside the
> Marxological
> >>  debate
> >>  then that leaves us with the question:  if one
> wants
> >>  to theorize
> >>  the subject matter of capitalism, what are the
> >>  analytical sub-
> >>  subjects which need to be theorized, what is
> their
> >>  logical
> >>  connection, and what are their
> inter-connections?
> >>
> >>  "What is surplus?" is a trans-historical
> question:
> >>  all
> >>  class societies have a surplus product. (whether
> >>  there is also
> >>  surplus value produced depends, of course, on
> the
> >>  definitions
> >>  and analysis that one is using).   The
> theorization
> >>  of capitalism
> >>  as a specific subject (rather than the
> theorization
> >>  of a general
> >>  history of modes of production) requires that we
> >>  move beyond
> >>  that question to ask and explicate the answer
> to:
> >>  what
> >>  distinguishes the capitalist mode of production
> from
> >>  other
> >>  modes and what is the character and the
> >>  developmental
> >>  tendencies and 'contradictions'/'antagonisms' of
> >>  that mode?
> >>
> >>  If you oppose the conception of capitalism and
> >>  inter-relationship
> >>  among sub-subjects expressed in the 6-book-plan,
> >>  then one
> >>  still has to put forward an analysis in which
> all of
> >>  the essential topics
> >>  and logical moments related to the subject
> >>  (capitalism) are grasped.
> >>
> >>  So, my question to you (note well that I am
> >>  following your suggestion
> >>  that the Marxological question be put aside) is:
> how
> >  > are the subjects of
> >>  capital and wage-labor, capital and landed
> property,
> >>  wage-labor and
> >  > landed property, capital and the state,
> wage-labor
> >>  and the state,
> >>  landed property and the state, foreign trade and
> the
> >>  3 major classes,
> >>  foreign trade and the state,  the world-market
> and
> >>  capital, the world
> >>  market and the working class, the world market
> and
> >>  landed property,
> >>  and the world market and capitalism as a whole
> >>  theorized together?  Do
> >>  you reject the idea that these topics need to be
> >>  theorized together to
> >>  understand the subject of capitalism as a
> whole?; do
> >>  you have a
> >>  suggestion for an alternative framework for
> better
> >>  understanding this
> >>  subject as a whole?  Let me suggest to you that
> the
> >>  question is not
> >>  "what is surplus?" -- it is how do we fully
> answer
> >>  'what is capitalism?"
> >>  and how does it as a (you are not going to like
> this
> >  > word) "totality"
> >>  operate?
> >>
> >>  In solidarity, Jerry
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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