From: ope-admin@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu
Date: Thu Dec 14 2006 - 03:56:43 EST
STATEMENT BY THE AC
To begin with, the AC wants to be clearer about what we mean by a
“flame”. A very helpful reference is an entry on “Flaming” in
Wikepedia at: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_war>
We would like to emphasize the following characteristics of a “flame”,
according to this source:
1. A flame is a message that is DELIBERATELY HOSTILE AND INSULTING.
2. A flame may have elements of a normal message, but is DISTINGUISHED
BY ITS INTENT. A flame is typically NOT INTENDED TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, TO
FURTHER CLARIFY A DISCUSSION, or to persuade other people
3. A normal, non-flame message may have elements of a flame -- it may
be hostile, for example -- but it is NOT A FLAME IF IT IS SERIOUSLY
INTENDED TO ADVANCE THE DISCUSSION.
4. Flamers WISH TO UPSET AND OFFEND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FORUM.
We would also like to add one other characteristic of a flame:
5. A flame is a REPEATED AND INTENTIONAL DISTORTION and
misrepresentation of the views of another person.
We think the following statements by Rakesh fit this description of a flame:
“This is after all a list in which its moderator is more concerned to
get right the nature of elephant treatment than the character of New
World slavery, a list member rallies to the defense of the white
farmers of Zimbabwe, a list member refers to Negros and the different
human races.”
“The diversity of this list is not surprising--is it, Mr Moderator?”
These comments were “deliberately hostile and insulting”. They were
not intended to “clarify the discussion”, but instead were intended to
“upset and offend” Jerry.
One point that is more debatable, and was a key point that started the
latest episode, and which Rakesh has emphasized in later posts, is the
following:
Jerry wrote: “Primitive communism and slavery are modes of production,
I think, which are possible for other species. Feudalism and
capitalism, I think, aren’t ... for a variety of reasons.”
Rakesh replied: “This is just racism--so called primitives and slaves
aren't really humans; serfs, dependant peasantries and formally free
wage workers are. Such an idea is only possible on the basis of the
invidious built up by racist Euro-American culture.”
Jerry argues that Rakesh misrepresented his argument by restating it as
“so called primitives and slaves aren’t really humans”. Jerry did not
talk about “primitives”, but rather about “primitive communism”. Jerry
argues that this misrepresentation, especially since it is part of a
repeated pattern of distortions, should be considered a flame.
Rakesh could argue that his comment is not a distortion of Jerry’s
views, and that his comment was intended to “advance the discussion”,
not to “upset and offend”, so it should not be considered a flame.
This would be a judgment call, and if this were the only possible
flame, we would probably try to clarify whether or not there was a
misrepresentation. But there were other obvious flames, as quoted
above.
In addition, Jerry repeatedly asked Rakesh not to comment on anything
he writes, but Rakesh continued to comment on Jerry’s "racism", which is
a form of harassment, and which could be considered a flame.
Therefore, the AC concludes that Jerry was justified in unsubbing Rakesh.
We also support the “compromise” agreed upon by Jerry and Rakesh.
Under these terms, Jerry has requested that Rakesh not comment on
anything that he writes, or even refer to him by name, and we expect
Rakesh to abide by that agreement. Ajit has also asked that Rakesh not
comment on anything he writes or refer to him by name, and we expect
Rakesh to honor that request as well.
We welcome Rakesh back to the list and we look forward to his positive
contributions to our discussions.
We also thank Jerry again for his tremendous contribution over the
years in keeping this list going.
Now that we have a clearer idea of what a flame is and what the
compromise agreement is, the AC should be able to act more quickly in
the future, not just in cases that involve Rakesh, but in other cases
as well.
The Advisory Committee
Allin Cottrell
Fred Moseley
Alejandro Valle Baeza
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