From: dogangoecmen@aol.com
Date: Fri Apr 04 2008 - 06:17:25 EDT
Well, what is wrong with that? Dogan -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Verschickt: Fr., 4. Apr. 2008, 11:19 Thema: RE: [OPE] How to read Capital The issue is whether money has to be a commodity or not. If you try to logically derive it from the nature of commodities, this predisposes you to a commodity theory of money. Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 1629 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu on behalf of dogangoecmen@aol.com Sent: Fri 4/4/2008 9:39 AM To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu Subject: Re: [OPE] How to read Capital This does not undermine his explanation of the genesis of money. Though Marx deals with gold as money his point is more general concept of money rather than just gold. Dogan -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Verschickt: Do., 3. Apr. 2008, 20:44 Thema: RE: [OPE] How to read Capital The reason I am focusing on the Chinese, is that they have had paper money for a thousand years, Europe has recently caught up. The form of money analysed by Marx ( gold or silver coin ) was a relic of European barbarianism from which we emerged only in the 20th century. We now live in civilised societies in which the state is far more important to social relations than it was when Marx wrote. As always the present is the key to understanding the past, once you see the more advanced paper money as the norm, you begin to see how Marx himself was limited in his perspective by the prevailing economic relations of his day. Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 1629 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu on behalf of dogangoecmen@aol.com Sent: Thu 4/3/2008 4:44 PM To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu Subject: Re: [OPE] How to read Capital Of course no. I am talking about the state in capitalist societies. In earlier formations society commodity production is not the dominating form of production. And I find the question why Chinese or Roman or Greek or Ottoman emperors and kings coined money less important for the questions we raised. Dogan -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Verschickt: Do., 3. Apr. 2008, 16:49 Thema: RE: [OPE] How to read Capital Did this apply to Chinese Emperors of the Sung dynasty? Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 1629 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu on behalf of dogangoecmen@aol.com Sent: Thu 4/3/2008 1:13 PM To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu Subject: Re: [OPE] How to read Capital Because the state the embodiment of a general capitalist is. -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Paul Cockshott <wpc@dcs.gla.ac.uk> An: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <ope@lists.csuchico.edu> Verschickt: Do., 3. Apr. 2008, 13:59 Thema: RE: [OPE] How to read Capital Marx uses more philosphical language true, but the idea that one particular commodity is set aside as a numeraire is common to much of economics. What this theory fails to account for is why money is issued by the state. Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 1629 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: ope-bounces@lists.csuchico.edu on behalf of dogangoecmen@aol.com Sent: Thu 4/3/2008 11:35 AM To: ope@lists.csuchico.edu Subject: Re: [OPE] How to read Capital Dogan ----- (Bear also in mind how he explains the genesis of money as form of social relation.) Paul C ---- Marx's explanation of money as a generalisation arising out of barter is really pretty conventional in economics, as I understand it Menger gives the same explanation. If one contrasts it with actual existing money then there are problems, and these problems, I think, illustrate the difficulties with applying a dialectical deductive approach. Real existing monies are all issued by the state, but since the state can not be deduced from the commodity, Marx can not allow the state a causitive role in money. This then renders contemporary money, or Chinese Imperial money unintelligible. We end up with Newtonian rationalism and eurocentric prejudice being disguised as dialectical development. Marx ==== "The difficulty in forming a concept of the money form, consists in clearly comprehending the universal equivalent form, and as a necessary corollary, the general form of value, form C. The latter is deducible from form B, the expanded form of value, the essential component element of which, we saw, is form A, 20 yards of linen = 1 coat or x commodity A = y commodity B. The simple commodity form is therefore the germ of the money form." Dogan ==== As you see Marx goes here much further than traditional explanation of money. Its genesis is already entailed in the contradictory nature of a simple commodity. Marx ==== "The universal equivalent form is a form of value in general. It can, therefore, be assumed by any commodity. On the other hand, if a commodity be found to have assumed the universal equivalent form (form C), this is only because and in so far as it has been excluded from the rest of all other commodities as their equivalent, and that by their own act. And from the moment that this exclusion becomes finally restricted to one particular commodity, from that moment only, the general form of relative value of the world of commodities obtains real consistence and general social validity." Quotes are all from the first chapter of volume 1. Dogan ________________________________________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos eMail f?r alle. 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Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. _______________________________________________ ope mailing list ope@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/ope ________________________________________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos eMail für alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. _______________________________________________ ope mailing list ope@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/ope ________________________________________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos eMail für alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. _______________________________________________ ope mailing list ope@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/ope
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