[OPE-L:4189] Re: : RE: Part Two of Volume III of Capital

From: Steve Keen (s.keen@uws.edu.au)
Date: Fri Oct 20 2000 - 22:39:20 EDT


No Rakesh, that wasn't what I was saying.

A more technical statement of my frustration with your approach is that you
appeal to a system which, if stated in the form of dynamic equations, would
have more unknowns than equations. In such a system, anything argument is
possible--even, for example, that capital is the only source of value and
labour only maintains its value input.

Steve
At 22:43 19/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Re 4154
>
>>Rakesh,
>>
>>The key problem I have with your approach, and I *hope* that at least some
>>people on OPE share this concern, is that your procedure makes it
>>effectively impossible to put what you see as Marx's logic into a format in
>>which it can be tested for internal consistency. Popper described this kind
>>of behaviour as the hallmark of a pseudo-science. While the philosophy of
>>science has moved on a long way from Popper, his litmus test between a
>>science and a non-science--that the former makes statements which can be
>>falsified, whereas the latter makes it impossible to either verify or
>>disconfirm itself--is still accepted.
>>
>>In other words, in the name of saving Marx from what you see as unjustified
>>criticism, your approach effectively makes it impossible to make any
>>criticism at all.
>>
>>I for one do not wish to "save" Marx in this fashion.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
>Steve,
>You do not indicate what in my or the TSS's position renders 
>falsification impossible. You do not show why input prices=output 
>prices is a test for internal consistency.
>
>So before I respond, may I ask for a clarification.
>
>Let me go back to a philosophy 101 example despite the erudition 
>already displayed on this list
>
>1. All ravens are black
>2. It is not the case that all ravens are black
>3. There is (or exists) a non black raven
>
>So is this what you are saying????
>
>
>1. All price of production systems are determined by an underlying value
system
>     or all value systems can be transformed into a price of production
system
>2. It is not the case that an equilibrium price of production system can be
>    derived from a value  system or a value system can be transformed 
>into simple
>    reproduction at the same unit prices of production for the inputs as the
>    outputs
>3. There exist price of production systems, viz. equilibrium ones, which
cannot
>    be determined by value
>
>If this is what you are saying some quick questions:
>
>a. are you assuming  that falsifiable hypotheses should take the form 
>of universal generalisations
>b. are you saying that your critics here are defining "system" in 
>such an inherently temporal and sequential way that the 
>falsifications simply cannot count as such?
>c. are you saying that Popper thought falsification could be achieved simply
>by constructing ideal models as negativising existential statements 
>even if they had no empirical relevance?
>
>I truly couldn't make heads or tails of your post.
>
>
>Yours, Rakesh
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Dr. Steve Keen
Senior Lecturer
Economics & Finance
University of Western Sydney Macarthur
Building 11 Room 30,
Goldsmith Avenue, Campbelltown
PO Box 555 Campbelltown NSW 2560
Australia
s.keen@uws.edu.au 61 2 4620-3016 Fax 61 2 4626-6683
Home 02 9558-8018 Mobile 0409 716 088
Home Page: http://bus.macarthur.uws.edu.au/steve-keen/



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