Re: [OPE] English-German translations? Erfurt Programme

From: Doğan Göçmen (
Date: Mon Jul 21 2008 - 17:35:14 EDT

 No, Jerry I seem to have joined he list after this debate. I would have probably in one way or another supported Mikel's position.

Concerning the question you raise there is one paragraph in the Erfurt Programme.

It says that "The struggle of working class is necessarily a political struggle. Without political rights working class  cannot improve  its economic struggles and economic organisations. It cannot bring about the transition of the means of production into the property of all without getting into the occupation of political power." (My translation) 

So can you please explain what you mean by state centred in the light of this paragraph. I have the feeling we are putting entirely different meaning into this expression. 

Doğan Göçmen
Author of The Adam Smith Problem:
Reconciling Human Nature and Society in
The Theory of Moral Sentiments and Wealth of Nations,
I. B. Tauris, London&New York 2007



-----Original Message-----
To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <>
Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:19
Subject: RE: [OPE] English-German translations? Erfurt Programme

> Yes, Jerry is missing the point. The Erfurt Programme has two parts: Maximum (revolution) and Minimum (reform) Programme. The first part describes in a more > general sense the long term aim(s). The Minimum programme has in turn two parts. First part has 10 aims to be implemented to improve 
the quality of social life > in general - not just administration. The second part aims to improve work conditions of working classes. So it is not state centered at all.


Hi Dogan:


I don't have the document in front of me (although I read it

_many_  years ago) so I am at a bit of a handicap to reply: 

was the SPD's vision of SOCIALISM a state-centered 

perspective or not?


You might recall (I think you were on the list when we had

this exchange) that there is some disagreement over whether 

a [workers'] state is necessary for socialism (or even compatible 

with that goal)  The particular context in which that discussion arose 

was over differing interpretations of  Marx on the Paris Commune.One 

perspective (most notably advocated by former member, Mike L) 

considered the Commune to be a state and another perspective 

(advanced by John H and Alberton B) said that it was not.


In solidarity, Jerry



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